Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Was this a 63 block? What kind of overbore?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

+1, too much boring mebbe?

The pic is incredible, I can't believe the whole thing didn't let go. At last you can re-use 90% of the parts!

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Mo had a cracked block but his was the 2.4 6bolt block.

John, you don't deserve this kind of bad news. Best of luck on finding a new block and hope to see it out there again in the spring. :D

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

This issue isn't uncommon with high hp 4g63s. Even ones with 0 overbore.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

This is a 4g63 block with un known miles, about 300 miles at ths power, most of which was just driving around. The block was a 40 over bore, they weisco 9.25:1 pistons were shelf stock with the 40 over.

I have another used block, I will bring it to work and sonic test everything I can. The sleeve idea is out, just a partial fill with hard block. If its only the block and everything else is ok it will be running in spring.

From what I recall it was the #1 cylinder that cracks, and some say its from cut driver side motor mounts. Thus why I made my motor mount bolt on to the front of the block also.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Hmm, I've heard of several 2.4's with this, hardly any 2.0's. Sucks to hear, but luckily blocks are still pretty plentiful.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28089

Check out some of the parts I have for sale.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

ouch, just curious what are you running for a balancer?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

stock balancer

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

That sucks john. I will put that 2 step tweaks on the back burner.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Does this mean you are calling it quits or what is the plan?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Goin Auto?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I also thought he was selling all that random stuff to help fund his motor build.


Good luck on everything John! This car is beast and it was fun to see it in action on the dyno and at the track. Hope all goes smooth with the future plans for it and you can get your 9 second pass in!

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

lol, there is NO WAY I could call it quits, even if I wanted to. I have a ton of money and time into a car that runs a 10.06 only makes 650awhp.

I was asked how I have kept going this hole time at the dyno day. All I said was "I took a really long break".

I looked at what I have invested, what I can easily replace in the setup, and what I can possibly up grade over this winter.

So I posted stuff that was a little light on the build, and stuff that I can just buy again come EARLY spring and get the car back up and running.

I will say this, I have a plan for bigger/better on everything I posted up for sale. This car will be running on E98 even if its at the same boost as now or not, I will have some form of the 2200cc injectors, a fuel pump that can handle a 1000+ awhp, it will have the same or better manual tranny, it will have the same or better tires, and the race seat is an up in the air thing right now.

I am also going over the idea of the 25.5 chassis and really coming in hard next season. As in expect another 200lbs off the car, a chassis legal for a 7.50@180 and another 300awhp on tap plus nitrous.

But for now the goal is only to take the galant VR4 record, I have the trap speed wrapped up on pump gas, with a few more passes with a good track I know I can get the ET, but if I can shatter, and by shatter I mean a good second or better, then I might have to take it.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I like it when people have ambitious goals. Get it done.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

This strengthens the motor but makes it harder to cool? I'm guessing that drag motors can get away with it since they aren't running as long.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I know V-8 guys do partial fills all the time, and a lot of them road race there cars. For the most part the oil does more cooling for the short block, and you still have water flow in the head, and the top part of the bore where the majority of the heat is created. They also add something to the hard block that helps it dissipate heat. I will install an oil cooler to help keep the oil temp under control.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

There's more than a few hardblocked DSM's running around on the street.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...otos_32173.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...otos_32175.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...otos_32189.jpg

Here is the damage. It looks to me like some casting lines on the water jacket side of the #2 cylinder wall caused the crack. The cylinder wall measures about .175-.195". So with the 5" of un supported cylinder wall they were moving all over and the casting line made the cylinder wall a little thinner and had stress risers, thus the crack.

It looks like the #3 and #4 were doing the same thing. The pistons have cracks where the piston skirt blend into the wrist pin boss. The Rod bearings have seen better days, but they were standard Kings, I will be running ACL race series with a special coating with the new motor. The main bearings look great, and the oil pump/front cover is junk after 300miles.

It looks like I am getting air in the oil, so I will be doing some oil control around the crank and oil pan, and I will port the oil pressure releaf hole a little more.

Now I have the parts needed to put the hard block in, then I need to make a parts list then start machining.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Awesome carnage.

With the oil pump/front cover being trashed after 300 miles, is there a harmonic balance issue similar to what we were running into with the 6g72? Was something out of balance? (clutch? balancer?)
If memory serves correct you were revving to just shy of 10,000 rpm?
The air in the oil would make sense with that high of rpm and the oil pan design. More baffles and perhaps knife edging the crank will help keep the oil down and not being thrown around. Have you thought about trying to run a deeper oil pan and modifying the pickup? Get the oil away from that flailing crank may help with windage issues.

Do you have any pictures of the rod bearings? I am wondering if they were wiped out from oil contamination/air in the oil or if it was an rpm/moving part issue. However, like you mentioned, the Kings are a great standard duty (but “soft” bearing), the tri-coated ACL race series (the black ones) are a much better option for the severity you are putting that 4g63 through.

Are you planning to do a partial hard block now?

"Stay in it"

:)

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Would one of those crank scrapers help in this type of situation? Maybe it would keep the oil down in the pan better? Also, I think tpunx99gsx has/had one of those Moroso oil pans on his 1g, not sure if he still has it.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

That sucks, but an awesome carnage picture for sure!

What pistons were you running if you don't mind me asking? I ask because you mentioned the skirt/pin area showing signs of cracks, and I can't help but wonder if they were Wiseco's which people are seeing that same thing happen to occasionally.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I will take a few more picks tonight. The oil pump is shot due to air in the oil, no balance issues as its driven from the timing belt.

The Rod bearings just look worn from having a heavy crower rod spinning to 10,000rpm(logs show between shifts the motor would free rev to 10,000rpm).

They are Wiseco pistons, but I think my cracking issues is from the block moving around as much as it did. Ok I was miss understanding where they were known to crack, but I have the same issue as this thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyli...ce-wiseco.html

All 4 pistons are cracked where the skirt blends into the wrist pin boss, only on the front side of the piston as they sit in the car. I think my piston to wall is somewhere around .005, I will check tonight.

I am thinking of fabricating an oil pan, making a crank scrapper and windage tray.

And I will be filling most of the water jacket with hard block, as a 4g63 sits there is 5" of un supported cylinder wall to flap in the breeze. So I am thinking of filling all but 2 1/2" or so with hard block to keep things straight and less cracked.

As of now I am looking into switching to CP pistons and have looked at aluminum rods. That would come down to if I can sell the Crower rods I have now.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Those pics make me :crapper:

It seems you are going to some extremes for 700whp, there are a shit ton of people nationally making similar power, maybe they can help?

Good luck, you are def. going down a rough path, but I'm glad to hear you plan on blazing down that bitch.

Keep up the hard work we are rooting for you.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

The only reason I am looking at the extremes is this is pump gas hp at low boost. At some point I plan to run E98 and turn up the boost, but I want to get the bugs worked out at the track.

I plan to talk with anyone I can about this next motor build, things have come a long way in the last few years even. I started buying parts for this last motor build 6 years ago.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I just re checked and my piston to wall clearance was .005-.006". I do not recall the main or rod bearing clearance, but I would guess it was .0010-.0012", spec is .0008-.0020" on both.

Here are the pics of the cracks and bearings, the mains look good:

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...s_33170_5_.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...s_33174_9_.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/..._33179_14_.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/..._33180_15_.jpg


~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

A few updates on the never ending build. I have 2 blocks for the car for next year, one will be the new race motor, and the other will be the backup motor.

We just finished doing a partial fill on a block and machine work for the Crower rods and Wiseco pistons to go into. I just need rings and clean/paint the block and that motor is ready for assembly.

Then the good news, I am getting custom CP pistons, and custom Carillo rods for the new race motor. Which will have a lot more hard block then the back up motor.

The pistons are custom designed for this setup, the piston is more like a clover shape in the bore for better piston stability, It will have a 22mm HD wrist pin, and added strength from the shelf part to handle the high boost, high hp, and high rpm I plan for this setup. It will also have a new wrist pin lock and tool that is supposed to be easy to install and take apart.

The rods will be a straight H beem, a 22mm pin bore on the small end, and be the right width on the big end to fit the 6 bolt crank shaft, and the top of the line rod bolts, Multiphase TM (285,000 UTS).

I will post some pics tomorrow, and let you know when the shinny new parts show up.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Sounds like a lot of custom stuff, are you looking to be able to hit more hp than last time?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I have to dyno the car again, it will be on E98 with more fuel pump and injector then last time. So I want to start right about were it was at last time, then up the boost a few times and see where it goes, if I get 800awhp I would be happy.

Then go back to the track with the current power level and get the chassis setup, then up the power as needed.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_021.jpg

The parts are here.

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_024.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_007.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_008.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_009.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_011.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_018.jpg

Here are the rods and pistons up close. The pistons have a grove at the top of the compression ring and 4 gas ports to let cylinder pressure to the back side of the compression ring. They have the 22mm HD wrist pin, and the new SS wire lock with install tool that holds the wrist pin and is really easy to install/remove the locks. The rods are a straight H beam design and use 3/8" CARR rod bolts, this should hold the rod cap even at 10,000 rpm, or more.

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_039.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_040.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_041.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_042.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_043.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_046.jpg

This is the new block in the first stages of machining. The new CP pistons are .020 over, I am going to fill most of the water jacket with hardblock Monday after work. The block and caps are reamed out for the cap pins. After the hard block is in, I put the torque plate on then its into the V30 for decking, and boring of the cylinders. Then line hone and finish hone with diamond brushes. Then I will spend a few hours with a die grinder cleaning up the inside of the block. Then I want to make a crank scraper, and windage tray if there is room in the stock oil pan.

I will be ordering the few parts I need later this week to get the car up and running. I should be starting assembly of the motor in the next few weeks. Then its off to the dyno on E98 to make about the same power as last year, then to the track to get a good 60 foot time going.

The new parts:
Aeromotive Eliminator fuel pump
FIC Blue max 2150 injectors
felpro perma torque head gasket
new oil pump
misc gaskets for the engine

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Nice!!!!!

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_003.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_004.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_006.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0181.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0192.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_002.jpg

I will have bearings tomorrow, then its final cleaning, polish the crank, check the rod bearing specs, file rings, then start assembling. I should have some update pics early next week.

I just need to order a few oil pumps and a hand full of gaskets so when the head is done I can finish the motor.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

This is going to be sweet! So baseline fuel pressure will be 55psi? LOL.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Good to see progress!! I will actually have to take a peek at this thing this year, every event I actually went to, it wasn't there :(

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Gonna run a BAP with that pump? Or will it support everything you need/want?

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Lookin' good man! Can't wait to see it at the dyno!

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

This fuel pump and injector combo as proved to handle 1050some AWHP at MAP.

Based on the math my setup will not make more then about 850 at DB, and thats if everything holds together and nothing is a bottle neck in the setup.

~John

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Looking good john lets get to the track soon!

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

Nice updates! That wire lock tool looks slick and a good way to keep wire locks from shooting around the room.

Re: 91 Galant VR4
 

I only had the 8 locks to install, so not much for practice runs. I did have 2 pop out but by the 4th piston I had the hang of it.

I am happy with all the specs on the bearings, rings, piston to wall, crank end play, etc. I just have a few things to touch up on the head and I am waiting on a few other parts, oil pump, water pump stuff that should be here the end of this week. All in all I had 10 hours into the short block for final spec and assembly. Not bad but I wanted to make sure everything was as good as it could be.

Then when the car is up and running I will start to work on the back up motor. If everything works out I could be at the DB spring dyno day in mid May, then its off to Grove Creek for 60' testing.

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_028.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_027.jpg

After a fun threw the parts washer at work, then hot water and dawn dish soap wash, then brake clean and brushes threw the oil galleys and cylinder walls. A fresh coat of primer, then black engine paint and clear coat to finish it off.

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_029.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_030.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_031.jpg

Here are most of the tools and parts needed to assemble the short block, thanks to CP pistons and Carrillo rods for the great parts, and the Kramm Lox just make the piston and rod assembly so easy.

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0411.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_052.jpg

Here are the ARP main studs installed with the custom main cap dowel pins that are 1/2 in the block and 1/2 in the main cap. I am using STD sized ACL race series main bearings, and ACL race series rod bearings with the added .001" oil clearance.

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0241.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_034.jpg

Here I take the custom Carrillo rod and check the rod bolt length before I un-torque the bolt, this lets me know how much rod bolt stretch there was when they did the hone on the big end of the rod. I measured an average .0035" of rod bolt stretch, a common number for a 4g63 rod bolt right out of the box. I then measure the bolts free length, this will let me know over time if the bolt stretches and does not go back to its original length. Then I install the rod bearing shells and check the ID of the bearing. I torqued the rod bolts to 58 fl/lbs and the rod bolt stretch was about .0055" so just above the bottom end of the spec, which is .004"-.007".

http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_064.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_074.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_078.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_001.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0021.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...hotos_0041.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_036.jpg
http://www.mitsustyle.com/photopost/...photos_069.jpg

Then I install the Kramm Lox for the wrist pin, and after file fitting the rings I install each rod/piston combo into the block and properly torquing the rod bolts 1 last time. I torqued them all to 58 ft/lbs again and only had to put a little more on 1 rod bolt to get in the .006" rod bolt stretch, right in the middle of the spec.


~John