Re: Attempt to make things right
 

I would have posted sooner but was was a victim of the ban stick. So let me get this straight, you were with jake this whole time and had no idea he was screwing all these people out of their money? Hell, all you had to do was google search Jake Vogel and you could find a ton of people that he screwed over.

You seem like a pretty nice guy, but then so did Jake right before he took everyones money. I can promise you will see absolutely no business from me nor will you see any good comments about Vogel Performance coming from my direction until Jake is completely out of the picture. Hell the guy just IMed me a few weeks ago just to let me know I left my lug nut key in his garage and he threw it away. Something tells me Jake has not changed one bit and as long as you are working with him your business has some major problems.

If you didn't know Jake was stealing money before whos to say you wont realize he's doing it again?

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Yeah, it's taken me 3 months to find out about all of this. I never really searched because I didn't know I had reason to suspect anything.

I understand that most all of you won't be stopping by for business. I also understand the effect that will have on my business. It's an eye-soar I have to deal with now.

I had no reason to not trust Jake before, and was unaware of any reason to keep an eye on him. Since all of this has come to light, there are plenty of things in place to protect myself and my money. I have made my attorney aware of the situation and steps have been taken in our business contract and what-not.

All that I ask, is for everyone to give ME a fair chance. I'm not asking you to give Jake any slack at all. I'm not asking you to stop by and be chums and buy parts because I ask you to trust me. I am just asking that if someone were to ask about us, tell them what you know. "This Neil guy seems all right.....don't know him personally though. And Jake still works there, so I wouldn't get too close to that place cause he's there." I might be expecting too much.......I don't know. I just know the cards are stacked against me and I'm going to try to heal things over. That's all I can do at this point.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

So you still really haven't clarified... does Jake still work there or not?

Because if he does, well honestly I don't wish you any luck what so ever if that is the case.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Im one of those people that base my opinion on first impression. One local shop rubbed me the wrong way and never went back, another was great from the minute I bought something from them and I buy 90% of my parts from them because of that. So just make good impression on your new customers and Im sure that you will end up alright. But like you said the cards are against you.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

If this were your shop and your shop alone I'd think about doing business with you. But as long as Jake has the slightest bit of say I'm sorry but my opinion stands. If I buy parts or service from you I am befitting Jake as well considering he is part of the company. Also, you said yourself you don't have much experience with dsms so my guess is you would have jake do work involving them...that's the last thing I want.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Yea I'm sure Jake does quality work on customer cars too... "roll eyes"

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

At this point, I think Jake will still be a part of the endeavor. I don't know the Jake that you all know. And yes, he did hide this from me, but I can sort of understand why in a messed up kinda way.

However, the more I read through the posts in this thread and the other one, I am feeling that I may change the name of the shop. It'll be kind of a bitch because everything is set up already, but it may be worth the hassle.

Yeah, I would have posted sooner but Kracka banned me! lol


*dick* haha

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

I havent taken a fixed opinion on either side of this, yes jake fucked up but I know many people who have fucked up before and finally straightened things out. With that said and what I know if the situation I would say go through the hassle and change the name... it may take more time to get things rolling but I feel it would benefit you better for your initial launch and give you a step up for a fighting chance

good luck on the endeavors and if i'm in the neighborhood i'll stop by to meet you personally like I have with the guys at the other shops

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Honestly, if others decide to go down on your dyno day I will be making the trip my self and letting every customer know about the situation.

I believe in forgiving people, but I honestly don't think Jake has changed at all which is truely sad, to others and my self he used to seem like a really good guy.

Just wait until you meet the real Jake, everybody else thought they knew the real Jake and look what came out of it.

So that being said who is gonna be showing up at their dyno day?

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

well Neil, I see it this way. If Jake is still part of the shop then changing the name is just a way to trick people into thinking they aren't doing business with Jake when they really are (which a lot of people including myself would not like to do). If Jake is going to be part of your business then I think the name should stay what it is so people know who they are working with.

Honestly, if you are actually going through with this whole thing and keeping Jake on board, I have no doubt you are one of the nicest people alive. But still the though of helping Jake in any way at all disgusts me.

I'm not just angry because it took jake 5 months to send me a set of injectors. I'm more angry that after a year or so of knowing jake and becoming actually good friends with him I was just left in the dirt all of a sudden. Hell I used to call him any time of the day with simple little questions like what order to plug in my spark plug wires and he'd know right away (or on his second guess lol). It just sucks when your friendship turns out to be worth a couple hundo.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

welcome Neil! I have met Niel and showed with him at HIN great guy..you do seem to have the cards stacked against you good luck.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

LOL

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Well that's one thing I'm also trying to sort in my head. As you mentioned, that would just be one way of trying to deceive. I really don't want to do that.

I encourage everyone to show up once we have said dyno day, but I would ask that if you are to show up please be decent about it. Again, if you have issues with Jake, take them up with him. Don't bring me into it in that manner.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

I agree with neil... this is the first I will on the whole situation. You cant just fuck a guys name up over someone else... yes talk about jake and how he is bad is fine imo, but then making a desicion on how neil is from that is a little streched... i'ma little drunk so this might be fucked on how i'm expalining it

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Hey neil, looks like we should probably have a little chit chat,... I'll be sending you an email shortly.

If you are going to continue to work with jake, I'd suggest you work on figuring out a way to tell if hes lying or not. Maybe he winks twice after every lie, maybe its just every time he opens his mouth, I'm 2000+ miles away, so its hard for me to figure that kind of stuff out.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

haha, i'll keep that in mind.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

My $0.02, with all due respect, your business is fucked because of Jake Vogel.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Jakey has spoken. The end.

I actually do agree though; history repeats itself and people really don't change. Unless you cut all ties to Jake and change the shops name you will never be able to gain back the trust that Jake lost in the DSM community.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

+1

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

+2:dj:

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

:werd: I work on trucks everyday and make a damn good living doing it.:)



However, truckers are some very interesting people and I can definitely see the humor in this post even if Mr. Neil isnt your average trucker. Just speaking on truckers on the average. I have been inside about 450 trucks in the last 10 months and met most of the drivers......very interesting.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

I used to have truckers come into napa asking to buy locking gas caps... they said they can't trust 90% of their fellow truckers.

Hope that doesn't applyto Neil too.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Not to take things further off topic but with $4 a gal diesel people will do anything for fuel. We have been dealing with this at work with all of the trade trucks that are out of service and waiting to be sold.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

The fuel prices are getting really high. I have a friend that owns a truck shop in Sparta, Wisconsin, and he is selling because of all the small companies that are "pulling the pin" for the last time.

Lucky for me, Ashley won't be real affected by it for a while. Being that we are a private carrier, and only haul our own stuff out, we don't have to worry about whether or not the freight will be there for us to haul. If fuel prices keep climbing, they will just raise the price of the furniture here and there so soften the blow.

I appreciate your concerns, but I am not a thief. There are a lot of owner operators who will suck fuel out of your tanks while sleeping because of the prices. I try to stay in "decent" truckstops, and well lit areas. Ashley has nice equipment, and it makes us kind of a "target" per say. It's sad. I feel bad for these owner operators who are only trying to get by with freight paying what it did 20 years ago.

I know that the majority here still doesn't know me, or trust me. Looking at the title of this thread, I will try to make this right. That's what it says. Just bear with me, and things will work out. I know actions speak louder than words, so I guess you should just grab your bowl 'o popcorn, sit back, and wait. That's all I can really say. There's no tellin what the future will bring.....who knows, maybe Jake will find Jesus?

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

You're right, actions speak louder than words. Wanna pay the 300+ for my tune that I would have had by now if jake would have sent my stuff on time? Thad be a pretty "loud" action don't ya think?

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Neil, you seem like a pretty decent guy so I say this with all honesty...RUN AWAY!!!

Seriously, I am willing to bet you can find just as capable mechanics that would love to work on high performance cars all day. And if that is the main reason for Jake being there then move on. Change the name and go about your business. But it is just that, your business so do what you feel you need to do and hopefully you don't get screwed like so many DSMers have. Best of luck to YOU.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Jake messed up, so I have to pay for it? Hmmm.......makes perfect sense. :crapper:

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

YOU went into business with him therefore YOU too are now liable for his past debts. I'm not trying to be a dick, but going the extra mile for the customers he fucked over is what you're going to have to do in order to bring a good name back to the shop. Before you should even attempt to create new customers take care of the old ones first since in return they'll spread the word that things have changed and that alone will bring in the new customers you desire.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

OK, now that just sounds like you're looking for a handout. Was Jake originally going to pay for this tune or something?

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

I think it's time you revisit your business model.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Thanks Kracka.

Halon I was a little sarcastic about what I said to neil. I was planning on getting everything done at once last summer. No Jake wasn't going to pay for anything, but I was financially ready to pay for my tune back then and things are a little rougher now that's all.

I was a little intoxicated when I posted that, but basically kracka said exactly what I was thinking.

example: I had a macbook a while back and it went to hell. Everything was breaking on it and the harddrive eventually crashed. I went back numerous time and was really frustrated with the whole thing. For a while I had nothing but bad stuff to say about my mac. They ended up replacing the whole laptop with a newer nicer one. Now I tell ppl about their great customer service whenever I get the chance.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

And that makes sense, because it Mac's product that failed, so they replaced it. If you paid for a tune from him, and never received it, then yeah he owes you one. But you didn't. You ordered some injectors, which took them quite awhile to get them to you, but you actually did receive in them in the end. What does that have to do with them owing you $300+ for a tune? You're stretching it there.

BTW, I'm not backing this company up. I think it's already fucked and sure as hell won't be getting my money, nor can I see them getting much local business at all.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

^ok I'll try to make this a little more clear for ya. I was being somewhat sarcastic. I'd like to see SOMETHING done for those that got screwed, not necessarily money. Ok sorry you didn't catch on

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

We stopped by the shop today while scouting the cruise route to check things out and chat it up but didn't seem like anyone was there (or just not answering the knocks, there were 2 cars outside).

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

To bad you didnt stop by my place im 2 block away

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

I hate fucking drama… That is the main reason I don’t post here anymore. I admit I made a pretty shitty name for myself and MY business which I take blame for, no questions asked. After talking with Kracka I honestly feel that this cant get much worse that it already is, even if it does so be it. No way to find out without posting.

This “attempt to make things right” is not entirely true. Making lies to cover lies is not how I want this to turn out. I am serious about trying to fix things. I really wanted this loan to go through for that reason alone. I was ready to put everything I had on the line just to fix this shit that should have been done from the beginning even if it means “giving up” my business ownership for a few years. Although still being an equal partner just not on paper.

I’m not here to hide anything. Scheides, Kracka, Mark, and Kevin, I wish I would have been at the shop when you were there. It would have actually been nice to meet you and talk in person instead of talking over a forum. I didn’t make it there until 2:30. Sorry guys. Brian has my number, should have gotten that from him with the shop info.

Actually, you have not taken ownership of anything yet… I didn’t feel the need to bring my past into this because it is my past. This was me starting over. It was basically helping you out and you helping me like we talked about.

Actually it wasn’t used for shop rent until the loan came through. I paid that out of my pocket from working and part from selling my car. I wouldn’t have sold my car if I didn’t need some extra money.

I didn’t “need” you for your credit. That was just a bonus. When we first started talking about this whole thing did I ask you, “Hey, what’s your credit like”? Nope! We didn’t figure out that your credit would be the only thing used until after we handed everything into the bank. Don’t make it sound like I wanted to go into business with you just for your credit. That’s not what I was doing it for.

Like I said before, you haven’t taken ownership of anything yet. Not until the loan goes through and we sign the contract. Since when am I not an equal partner? Because of the loan, you said it would only be on paper as you would be the owner until I am put on the loan. And I was suppose to get everything off the ground for 4-6 months until we got a decent customer base, money started coming in and you could get out of he truck, then what, get rid of me and you’ll be sitting where you want?

The only reason I posted when I did is because people made such a HUGE deal about where I was or what I was doing when THEY didn’t have anything to do with the situation. Did you notice the people that I have been dealing with weren’t posting. I posted because I’m not hiding like everyone thinks I am. I talk to a few people on this board just about every other day or so, have done business with a few of the members here as well, but people that have nothing to do with me or my business still consider it big news if they see me post on another board. GET A LIFE!

The name WILL NOT be changed. Don’t worry about ditching me… Everyone’s advice has been taken. Consider it done. I'm out! :)

Wow, you are full of shit too… I never said I threw it away. I said if you want me to I can cause I don’t need it and you said that’s cool, you could just get a new one from the local parts store instead of running all the way down here. I haven’t thrown it away yet either. I’m not that big of an asshole. I told you I would keep it if you wanted it back.

Neil was not “with” me this whole time. We didn’t submit the first part of the papers for the loan until the middle of December. Which had to be changed and the final copies were submitted last week.

Technically I didn’t “steal” money. It was given to me for parts and they have not been delivered yet. Cant steal something that is given to you. I am fully prepared to follow through with any deals that were made and supply parts or services that were already paid for. I’m not just up and ditching town like someone else we all know.

If you are basing your opinion off your first impression, then would it be good? Considering I sold you an O2 housing made for a 38mm external w/g a few years ago and you seemed to be happy with the deal. I even wanted to buy it back from you. Although in the other thread you stated I sold you a Magnus SMIM and I screwed you. I’m sorry but you must be mistaking me for someone else because I have never owned one or sold one.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

I don’t think I’m ready for the “endeavor” anymore. I didn’t “hide” this from you. I didn’t feel the need to bring up my past. And when it was brought up, I told you about it, showed you the threads on the other boards, and so forth. But the funny thing, you never mentioned this thread to me or anything about YOU being the ONLY owner or changing the name of the business. Which I stated before WILL NOT be changed. I am the owner of Vogel Performance and I plan on keeping it that way. Whether there is a partner or not.

I’m not going to run away from my past by changing the name of the shop or anything else.

Thank you for your input. You are one of the few who “haven’t taken a fixed opinion on either side” and I appreciate that. I wish others would take to this as I haven’t done business with 90% of the people saying I will never have a chance because I fucked up. People fuck up, not saying its ok, I wish I hadn’t. Doesn’t help much when I am working on fixing things and everyone that has nothing to do with the situation continues to talk all this shit when they have no clue what is going on. Doesn’t make me really want to try any harder but yet I am.

You don’t know me (at least I do not know you), so why talk? You are bashing someone you know only what you read about on the internet or what others have told you. You have nothing to do with this situation, you’re cool.

This is the “real” me. Last year when this all went down, that wasn’t the “real” me. Shit happens.

There will not be a dyno day. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Correct, that’s why the name will remain the same. Then IF I do get business, it will be because people can see I’ve changed or have trusted me all along for those customers that I had before this and still have from the site and community.

Its not like that at all. You know what happened, whether you choose to believe it or not is your decision. Don’t you remember the little chat we had in October about how you’d rather have money, so I sent the injectors back and was going to refund your money, then turned around and said you’d rather have your injectors, so I ordered them again, then you did the same shit AGAIN. Told me to send them back, so I did. Then said you wanted them so I ordered them again. Then I ended up shipping them to you like you asked by the end of December. Then once you got the injectors all this shit talking started. Texting shit to my girlfriend and such, seriously grow up. She had nothing to do with this, leave her out of it and come deal with me if you got issues. No, texting her did not get me to send the injectors. All that did was entertain her and how you tried so hard.

Such a nice email. I’ve been keeping in contact with you, giving you updates and such. I’m sorry I’m not online EVERY night at 4am CST to chat with you. I do live a normal life and have a job. You say you call me and I never call you back, but you NEVER leave a message cause “you don’t like leaving messages” so when I don’t have service or my phone is off, how am I suppose to know you called?

You asked me to send you your stock pistons/rods back and that would make you trust me a little and lift the stress a little. Saying you would even pay for shipping once you received them. I did as you asked. In return, you didn’t follow through with paying shipping, not like I really expected you to though. But then you can turn around and email Neil about how you are going to put me behind bars and sue me for everything that I’ve done including everything that has happened between other people. What the fuck man. Should I just say fuck it and wait for that day instead of wasting money and time trying to fix this? I don’t get it but am curious to know.

You haven’t paid for it yet, so you should still have the money. Nice try pretty boy.
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With all that being said, the shop will remain Vogel Performance. I will continue to work there as I do with what customers I have now and those I get throughout the future. If people choose not to due business with me due to my past that is completely fine with me. I deserve it and will take the hit. There are a lot of different cars out there that need maintenance besides DSMs so I feel as if I can still go on and I will continue to try to better the business.

Like I said before, I do not post here anymore because of the drama. I took the advice of someone and decided to post to continue to tell the truth. I honestly just wanted to let it go, let you believe what you want and not come back to MitsuStyle as it seems nothing but drama occurs when I post here. I’m not hiding, or whatever everyone is thinking I am doing. If I have no business with you, I do not feel the need to talk to you or post letting you know what my day to day activities are. If you really want to know, just ask.

If anyone wants to stop by the shop like those of you who already have, go right ahead. Let me know your coming and I’ll be more than willing to show you around. I seriously don’t understand why people make other peoples business their own. Do you not have a life? Do you have nothing better to do then follow me around, find out stuff about me and post it on the internet? Then bash me like you know every piece of detail and you had part in the deal. You are doing a lot of work for nothing when you can just ask me.

I hate to bring this up because I don’t want to reference this business but it was already brought up in this thread. Look at Slowboy Racing. How many people have they fucked over. Have they tried to fix it? Sure maybe a couple people. Many people do not like them and will never give them business, myself included. But saying I do not have a chance because of a fuck up I had with a couple people is like saying they don’t have a chance when they have fucked over many of the people on here, let alone across the nation. Yet in my eyes (Numbers related only) they are the most successful DSM performance related business in the country. How is that?

I’m not trying to be like SBR nor do I condone their business actions. I’m not trying to become a millionaire by working on cars either. I’m just doing something that I enjoy doing while I still can, being working on cars for a living.

Neil, you’ve been a great friend, but I think a business relationship probably will not work out. I do not want to drag you into my problems as it clearly seems you and everyone else thinks I am trying to do. I also don’t want to be the reason for you to quit your job, then have the business fail and it ruin your life. If this is ruins our friendship, I’m sorry for that as it was not my intensions. Although I’d rather lose a friend over ruining your life/family you’ve worked so hard for.

To everyone else, I’m sorry. This has gotten WAY out of hand.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

On that note I will end it. This is getting a bit long and I apologize for that. If you have a question, feel free to ask. You can PM me, email me, do whatever you need to in order to satisfy your need. Whatever makes you happy I guess.

Thanks for your time.

Jake



Off topic: Wow hit the post limit twice! Sorry for the novel!

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Unfortunately, I didn't save your texts that night but I am pretty sure you said you threw them away with other garbage. All I really remember you saying was that I will probably never graduate and how you will always make more money than me because you don't work for anybody. But lets put that aside and go out on a limb and say that in between all the harassing texts that were being sent both ways you did mention you would send me the lock key, after the whole deal with the injectors do you really think I would wanna deal with you sending me anything again? haha forget it. If you wanna go ahead and send it to me now go ahead. I will gladly post up when I get it for others to see you're really "trying." Don't ask me to pay for shipping though because I'm not sending you any more money. I think you can afford the $5 and I'll take it as a legit apology.


I did ask you to just refund the money but only once. I initially ordered the injectors and then after a few months I started getting frustrated. You said you didn't have time to get to the post office. Member our talk about how you don't even have time to shit everyday? So this was why I thought I'd have a better chance of getting anything if I chose the money. I then second guessed myself after a while and decided that I might as well stick with getting the injectors thinking that well my chances of getting either of the two things is about the same. So I will admit I caused some trouble for you. But you once told me how gullible I am believing everything you say, so please Jake, humor me and tell me why I should believe everything you said then or now.

And yea I apologize that I had to go as far as texting Amy. I never wanted to because I actually think Amy is a nice girl. I simply asked her to talk to you for me since you wouldn't call me back. I actually did leave you messages which never got returned. I knew texting Amy would get you pissed so I used that to my advantage. And just a little fyi Jake, since then Amy and myself have both apologized to each other and made up. I had a buddy tell her I felt bad about bringing her into this mess and she came back a few weeks later and texted me!

In conclusion, I think that you and Neil need to work something out because it looks like so far you both have done things and not told the other about it. This does not make for a very stable business relationship. I will say that I am impressed you took the time to post what you have. That was a somewhat mature thing to do.

Re: Attempt to make things right
 

Yeah, I think Jake and I need to have a long talk. Unfortunately, he hasn't answered his phone, or returned all of my messages since Friday.

Who knows, maybe his phone got shut off?

Jake, I know you're reading this, gimmie a call, huh?