Re: March for health care!
 

Im actually on Cobra this month because I changed jobs and my new work insurance kicks in Oct 1st. 300 bucks gives me good coverage per month. Its not cheap but it works.

Re: March for health care!
 

At least let HIM try? This is America, for the people, by the people - NOT what he wants.

Republicans are not giving him a chance to succeed because they know that the people out there that work hard and make an honest living (the majority of Americans, by the way) do not want this "socialized" (as you described it) healthcare.

Re: March for health care!
 

Hey Tom, why didn't you follow your own advice after the 2000 and 2004 elections?

Re: March for health care!
 

And COBRA is prohibitively expensive for an unemployed person. I just don't think most people realize what employers but up for premiums. I was told that for me (28 years old, single, healthy) that it's $700 some a month. That's all COBRA does. It allows you to keep what you had, but pay all the cost. I just look at it this way. You spend you whole life working and paying premiums. Why shouldn't you be covered for those (hopefully) few months you spend between jobs for a reasonable cost. Yes, I know you could go to another cheap plan, or state care or something until you get another job, but there's waiting involved. You can't plan when you'll get sick.

Here's another fun question. What if your employer gave you the $700-$2000 a month they spent on premiums and let you put it in you pocket instead. Would you pay for the same plan you're on, or would yo skimp to some crappy plan that no person in thier right mind brag about being the "best in the world"

Re: March for health care!
 

Just saw this, which kind of proves my point. I you need to do COBRA, your stuck with whatever you had. Sometimes thats a $300 plan, and sometimes it's a $1000 plan, whichever you had when you're layed off. Which leads to another great point. People are pretty much stuck with whatever the employer offers. I don't know what it's like at a big company, but at my small one, we have the choice between really expensive/no deductible, or the new super high deductible plan. Nothing in between.

Re: March for health care!
 

Also, don't forget that if you have a $300/month or $1000/month plan, your employer can adjust the cost for you up to a 10% administrative fee. :P

Another great point? You're stuck with what your employer offers? Not true. You can go out and get individual insurance (for yourself only, or plus a spouse/children). Just because someone doesn't want to go research their options doesn't give them a right to bitch about having to choose from two "bad" plans. The employer is at fault, too. They should shop around and find an insurance company that would let them choose from more than two plans. A "good, better, best" option (depending on what your definition of "best" is) is offered by many, many companies.

Re: March for health care!
 

I guess I can't really speak from experience. Never been layed-off. But, how many people seriously do that? I want to see a hands up. You completely lose the benefit of not being in a pool with individual plans (which are a huge savings for large companies and states). And employer plans are so heavily subsidized by the employer you'd never compete with them for cost. I know it's possible to do, but really who does it?

Re: March for health care!
 

I wasnt laid off at my last job, I quit for this new job. I took the Cobra from my old job.

I was laid off last year though, and luckily the company gave me 3 months severance with full benefits. I was lucky to get my old job back before that ran out.

Maybe some of the shops around here, or even Steve can comment on insurance for self employed? I dont know how the rates go there, but I know there are alot of options.

Re: March for health care!
 

I guess I don't want to argue on thing reasonable people can disagree on. I just want to know why employers got stuck with this whole healthcare thing. Why can't we look at something where large amounts of individuals can pool up and make choices from more plans.

Re: March for health care!
 

i have cobra, costs $108 a month, for the plan I have. There's a gov't subsidy for it right now that pays 66%.

Re: March for health care!
 

People are finally thinking for themselves, showing up in droves to town hall meetings showing their dislike of the proposed health care plan, and you have the audacity to think that it is entirely the media's doing for changing the way people think? Have you seen any video from these town hall meetings? The people that are supposedly helping run this country hardly know anything about the reform, and some of them even have the guts to admit that they are going to support it regardless of what people want because they believe it is the right thing to do even if it costs them reelection.

Don't know what I'm talking about? Watch these...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVCdz2507u8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Bpshk5nX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRRg7T6vcB4
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblo...nterests-my-d/

Ordinary people standing up for what they believe in. Don't tell me this is all the doing of conservatives. There are just as many democrats as there are republicans against this whole thing. It's funny how standing up against Obama magically makes you a conservative. Seems like childish name calling to me. Check out my voting record to see how un-conservative I am.

Gotta love Reagan predicting the future...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

Now, why is our current health care so bad? Those of us that work hard and have jobs have health care. If you don't work you have to buy it elsewhere. Saying it's not available to everyone is a lie, anyone can get it. After high school I was working but didn't have health care, and since I wasn't a student at the time I couldn't be covered under my parents. I was injured and ended up signing up for some simple health care through the state to help offset some of the costs. It was pretty cheap and was easy to do.

Now that I'm older, have a career and my employer is covering most of my health care costs even though they sky rocketed last year. I also suffer from a chronic illness that requires constant medication and frequent hospital visits. I refill three prescriptions a month. I don't have to wait weeks on end to get an appointment. My out of pocket expense limit for hospital visits is $2000 a year which I easily meet. This is a small price to pay for the awesome care I receive in order to keep me healthy.

Oh, and Obama's approval rating is spectacular... Must be all of the closet conservatives, huh?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ..._tracking_poll
http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Ga...-Approval.aspx

Re: March for health care!
 

I don't know what the law is about employers providing health care. Is it a choice, do they HAVE to do it, or do they do it in order to be a competitive employer?

Re: March for health care!
 

I don't think any state anywhere mandates employer coverage. What's the difference if it's mandated or because of competitive advantage? They still end up having to provide it becuase that how the current system expects it to be provided.

Re: March for health care!
 

This just in...

WHIP COUNT: DEMS LACK THE VOTES
Wed Sep 09 2009 17:03:37 ET

At least 44 more moderate Members of the Democrat Caucus have gone on the record in opposition to the current health care bill in the House, Hill source claims. Likewise, at least 57 liberal Members of the Democrat Caucus have gone on the record saying they will vote against a health care bill without a strong public option. In other words, unless multiple Democrats flip on their stated position on health care, Speaker Pelosi lacks the votes to pass a bill through the House on the strength of Democrat votes alone.

57 Liberal Democrats to vote no on a bill without a strong public option

On July 31, 2009, the Congressional Progressive Caucus sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi expressing their opposition to a weakening of the public option. The letter on behalf of 57 Progressive Democrats concludes, “In short, this agreement will result in the public, both as insurance purchasers and as taxpayers, paying ever higher rates to insurance companies. We simply cannot vote for such a proposal.” The text can be read here: http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/upload...%2030%2009.pdf

Full text here: http://www.drudgereport.com/flashwc.htm
Democrats have majority control and can't even pass their own bills. I'm sure Tom will bitch about me linking Drudge Report and Youtube, but we are in an information age, so deal with it.

Re: March for health care!
 

whats health care?


i like webmd.com

continue on..............

Re: March for health care!
 

I'd say it is part of being a good employer. Let's say you are Mr. Gates himself. Now, since your employee's do such a fabulous job at making YOU and the stock holders money, wouldn't you want to keep them there? Wouldn't YOU want to take care of them as they are doing for you? Now, if YOU don't care, then your employee's need to weigh their options, family, health, benefits, pay, etc. etc.

Re: March for health care!
 

Roads? Yeah ok, our crumbling national transportation infrastructure is definitely something the government can manage.

Re: March for health care!
 

see post #2

If you have something to say, say it intelligently w/o insulting others.

Re: March for health care!
 

Why part of not agreeing with this idea automatically makes someone a Republican?

Re: March for health care!
 

That's the same question I'd like answered. It's not just this, but anything related to Obama.

Re: March for health care!
 

So in MN you want to try and compare HWY 169 with 2 lanes to 394 with 3 lanes, one being a carpool/toll?? I think that is a pretty bad comparison. I don't have a problem with the roads. Obviously Mndot has to prioritize so they will fix a busy road like HWY 169 before a road out in St. Cloud. Simple cost/benefit approach.

I would like to argue in this thread in regards to the health care battle but like most of you, I do not know enough about it where I should be spouting my opinion off as fact. Just because Obama is pushing for this doesn't mean it is going to happen. Last I checked the president couldn't write and sign legislation into law. I have a feeling that most of the people who argue politics on here have no idea what is going on. They hear their parents or friends talk down on the plan (or other issues) and think that it is the best side of the story. MN is a democratic state, Obama won the election, deal with it.

Re: March for health care!
 

Nobody except you and Tom are talking about Obama. The topic is about Socialist health care, not Obama.

He is not the 1st to try and push this kind of stuff through the system. I just dont want the Guberment (any party or branch) having thier hands in my health. Period

Re: March for health care!
 

Anyone watch his speech tonight? It was too much for one guy at work to watch, it was funny. But seriously, check out these rockin' quotes!

Obama also defended his proposal for government-run public health insurance as an option for consumers, saying it would force private insurers to lower costs. However, he called the provision one alternative for increasing competition for health insurance and signaled his openness to alternatives.

He's not dead set like a stampede for a full government option. He's not some close minded.....................


republican, well a god damn majority of em'

"Let me be clear... it would only be an option for those who don't have insurance," "No one would be forced to choose it, and it would not impact those of you who already have insurance. In fact, based on Congressional Budget Office estimates, we believe that less than 5 percent of Americans would sign up."

Wow, that'd really shut down insurance companies that don't even have the 3-5% of uninsured Americans that would be able to afford a public option.

Oh fuck that 5% means Socialism wins!!!

"I will not back down on the basic principle that if Americans can't find affordable coverage, we will provide you with a choice."

There is nothing bad about this, I don't care what you think? Why can't the most bad-ass fucking balling out of control rich nation afford to insure it's own people? Yes, other nation's ways of doing may be flawed, but they do it.

Regardless of what anyone's views are, in the end, this whole ridiculous "health care reform war of ultimate strife" is to just plainly lower health care costs and get rid of all the absolute nonsense in the system now. Things can always be improved upon, like Evo's. Think of it as adding a 3" exhaust or a huge fuckin' 600mm turbo.

And if anyone thinks the government's hands are gonna be all up in yo insurance business, the fucking insurance company is already in yo business. They tell you who to see, when to see them, where they are, or whatever they do (I have never had insurance so I don't know the personal experiences with it) and what's so bad about the government saying that? It's kinda like switching companies.

I do however 100% disagree with Obama wanting it law that you have health insurance, like having car insurance in most states. Obviously taxes will increase to support a public option, but if my taxes go up then fuck having it be law that I buy a plan or whatever when I'm already paying in with taxes. That's like it'd be illegal to be alive almost.

Re: March for health care!
 

How is not going to effect me? Who is going to pay for it?

There are already programs in place for the uninsured.

Re: March for health care!
 

Hmmmmm... a public option? Hmmmmmmm..... taxes! Unfortuantely...

That's be my best guess, but I think a lot of people know and believe that there is so much waste and fraud and other b.s. in the system that the savings from that could come from there alone to fund it, that is for the 3-5% of people that would go for it.

But that's just a scenario for a public option. It's not like a public option is what's gonna happen here, who the hell knows what's gonna happen. Shit, God himself is probably crackin' a beer and eating cheetos and scratchin' his head.

Re: March for health care!
 

I have never had a problem going where I want and going when I wanted to. If anybody else on here has well then they can chime in If you have no experience in a feild it's best not to make assumptions.

As far as what's so bad about the government stepping in. At least all my insurance company's out of the many I've gone through over the years have run a pretty well organized buisness. They stick within thier budget and are very efficient at what they do. Something I've never seen the Government do in my lifetime.

Then I guess it does effect me :D ;)

Re: March for health care!
 

So then what's to just automatically say that you will have a problem with them right away or something? Like Obama said, he's not going to force you to choose. If you like your care, and your price and whatever it is that appeals to you and want to keep it, then keep it. And I'm not making assumptions, that's not my thing. I've seen things first had from friends dealing with shit like going to see all these damn specialists and doctor after doctor only to have the original insurance company say, "Oh yea, that doctor we sent you to, who sent you to a bunch of other doctors, aren't in our network, and they want to be compensated. Here's a bill for a fuckload of money." A guy at work here now owes over $3000 dollars as of today to all these doctors for the original doctors mistake, and this was over a month ago, and nothing has become of it. Either it must be really busy for the insurance company to take care of or that's how it is, regardless of a hiccup.

And I think that this whole health care cost thing has gotten so serious, that it will have to be taken 100% seriously. I mean shit, IT'S GOTTEN THE MOST ATTENTION OF ANYTHING IN MY LIFETIME! Except for Monica Lewinski and 9/11. People are going on the most ignorant shouting rants, calling Obama a Nazi, accosting people in town-hall meetings, shit, yelling "YOU LIE!!!", like senator Joe Wilson (R, SC). This is something that can and will bankrupt our nation, as it already is and has countless numbers of people already. So maybe it's time the government stepped it up a notch is a better way of thinking, rather than just saying "Oh well based on all the other flops and hilarious foul ups, they can't get anything right."

Re: March for health care!
 

Exactly. I pointed that out in one of my examples, I've personally dealt with it and it works.

Re: March for health care!
 

^^ Well good for you. I bought a house when I was ~19 and going to college. Since I didn't live at home anymore I was not covered under our familiy insurance. Coverage was too expensive so I couldn't afford any. My old job didn't offer it so I was without for over 3 years. If there was a reasonable option I would have gotten it.

The problem I see with inusurance is that most people are suckered into buying cadillac policies when they do not need them. I was talking to a partner at my work and he was saying how expensive it was due to this reason. I never get sick (haven't missed a day of school or work since HS and I probably wasn't sick) and only need insurance to cover disasters. At our firm, health partners does not offer such a policy. I probably wouldn't have health insurance if it wasn't paid 100% by my work.

1QUICK4 - inusurance companies do try and force you to go to certain doctors, they call it being in the network. If you want to go to a specialist, you typically have to get a referral by someone in the network to get out. An example of this was when a doctor at Park Nicolate had to refer my mom to the Mayo Clinic.

Re: March for health care!
 

Go back to page 1, hit Ctrl + F and search for Obama. First you will notice that the first post by Joesushi mentions him, then you will see it on posts by:

Matt D
Tom
A/// Guy
Fattyboombatty
Halon

That is just PAGE 1. You can go through the other pages if you like but it is not just Tom and I talking about Obama.

Re: March for health care!
 

I only posted about Obama because Tom brought him in here saying we are all AntiObama... which despite the fact I am, I focused on healthcare. May want to read the posts before you just start throwing my name in there. :)

Re: March for health care!
 

This is not a personal attack on you, but what you said is complete idiotic. The majority of the people on this site are adults who are smart enough to do their own research and make rational decisions based on facts.

I could just as easily turn your statement back onto you and say that you have only heard what your parents or friends have said to you.

So don't assume or "have feelings" that the majority of Style members are uneducated peons who spit rhetorical bullshit that they heard from others.

You had enough income to afford a house, and had income to pay for all of the utilities and upkeep that comes with owning a house. But you couldn't afford health insurance?

Maybe your priorities were not aligned with what you should have done in the situation... I'm not sure, and I'm not assuming. Could you have rented an apartment and had money to pay for health insurance? Again, I don't know and I'm not assuming anything.

Yes, most insurance companies prefer you go to a doctor that is in network. A doctor that is contracted with the insurance company so that rates for services are already set. Insurance companies do this to keep costs DOWN.

On any insurance plan, you can go to any doctor you want, but if you choose to go to a doctor that is outside of the network, that is your choice and you have to pay for it.

The days of the HMO are over for the most part. The majority of health insurance plans these days are set up so that you do not need to be referred to a specialist. Why? Because why should the consumer or health insurance companies pay two claims when only one visit is needed? Again, it tries to keep costs down. If a specialist is needed that is not within the network, then yes, you need a referral to, again, keep the total cost to the consumer down.

But your one example of your Mom being referred to a specialist is far more convicing than the 10 million claims my company processes each month.

So really... whos the one talking about this subject from what they've heard from their parents? :P

Re: March for health care!
 

If you would've read the posts you will see there is only one post talking even remotely bad about Obama and that was Matt D. So get over this he's your President blah blah blah. Nobody is arguing that. We are arguing healthcare.


If healthcare was that important to you you could've adjusted your life to have it. Don't make it out that it wasn't available to you because it was. It seems you'd just rather spend your money on a nice house, your education, and your toys. There were and are many affordable plans out there.

Hell, I lived on my own from the time I was 16 on and I've always had healthcare. Sure sometimes it is a higher deductable plan but guess what. I don't go to the doctor for bullshit like most people. It will save your ass when you need a $190K operation or procedure. When the bill is $190K, $5K deductable is very resonable

There is coverage out there right now for under $100 a month.

Re: March for health care!
 

C'mon now, that message is entirely misleading.

I see my name on that list. But my use of "Obama" was asking why he was being brought up by others in this topic, when the debate isn't about him, it's about healthcare.

That's ridiculous...

Re: March for health care!
 

FWIW, for the guys talking about the state of Minnesota provided healthcare, it should be noted that we have some unusually generous benefits utilizing one of the only working healthcare co-ops in the nation (Healthpartners). Some look to it as a model of what the nation could adopt as part of it's policy.

Re: March for health care!
 

And I also question the reasoning of purchasing a house at the age of 19, and having the means to do so and afford all your "toys", but not having enough for healthcare. Like was said, if healthcare is that important to you, then how was that not accounted for in your own personal budget before purchasing a house as a teenager?

At the same time though, I don't know your personal situation and there may be a very good reason for it all.

I wonder though, do you feel bad for those who complain that are on welfare, no insurance, yet drive around in nice Cadillac's? Or do you feel that maybe if they're in that kind of situation, maybe they should consider re-prioritizing their budget?

Re: March for health care!
 

Beat a dead horse much? Vipers, buying a house when you're 19, get over yourself. My point was that the system worked for me when I needed it and it was extremely affordable.

Re: March for health care!
 

Instead of talking about how much stuff you bought and all your fun toys, maybe you should instead tell us how you've help benefit society and spread the wealth rather than how you've profited off it. After all, that is what socialism, which you seem to love, is all about. Funny how hypocritical people become when you start talking about their personal wealth rather than just the citizens and taxpayers as a whole.

Re: March for health care!
 

This should be a post about how we should be marching AGAINST Obama's health care, not for it.

Re: March for health care!
 

I think it pretty much is right now.

Remember how much shit was talked about bush by the Liberals (and some conservatives)?

That was after years of being in office, people don't just sit back and take whatever shit their government throws at them because "He's our president and theres nothing we can do about it."

Everyone in here is just stating what they believe in, and where our government should stick their healthcare plan. But I suppose that makes us "Bible thumping inbred racist conservatives" heh?