You keep saying they are fighting for us. You need to think about why we are in Iraq. They were NO present threat to the US so saying that being over in Iraq somehow justifies itself as fighting for our freedom is stupid. If that is the case shouldn't we be fighting most countries, as many are "capable" of an attack. And to say that we elected Bush is BS too. I think it was rather conveniant that the only state that fucked up was the state which his brother is govenor.

Because of Bush our relations with the UN are shit. We should have waited for the UN's support instead of fucking ourselves in the ass. [/b][/quote]
Oh no, are relations with the UN are shit...SO. The UN is a joke.

Really? I'm gald you think that. Just so happens the other 190 member states of the UN seem to think that it is quite relavant to the relations between its international community.

Who are the thousands of solders fighting for then, their banker back home so their mortgate payment can be paid from their military salary? Remember, we are the United States of America, not the Some People Support War, Some Don't States of America. We are united together for one cause, no matter how that cause is defined, executed, or portrayed: Freedom. Every citizen who is enlisted in the armed forced is fighting for freedom, plain and simple. I couldn't care any less whether you support the war itself, but for God's sake, support the soldiers and step back sometimes so you realize that many of the comments you make are nothing but cutting down those fighting for freedom.

I don't see how you know for a fact Iraq was not a threat, considering you and I(and the general public) know next to nothing about what actually was going on.Do you work for the CIA or something? If you don't, you should, you obviously know more than all of us.Like I said before, any tyrannical regime with a large military and large amount of wepons is a threat, especially when they are ignoring UN resolutions.

I can tell you that our Government is not fighting with Iraq for our Freedom. And as for supporting our troops, I wish they were home safe. But they aren't so what I wish now is for their saftey and health. Our Government put them in that position so I disagree with The Government. How does that mean the I don't give a fuck about the troops. Your assuming a lot. And I take offense to that. If your so gunho why aren't you over there fighting for my freedom?

The military works on the chain of command, when soldiers start to question their orders, it opens up all sorts of problems, so until are troops are home people like you should keep their opinions to themselves.People like you, are the ones that made the soldiers lives so difficult when they came home from Vietnam.The fight is for freedom, not just our freedom, and any fight for freedom is a worthy one.

Yeah people like me that disagree with the Government. People like me that will support the Troops when they get back. I know they are only doing what they are ordered to do so why would I have any beef with them. Its the people that are giving the orders that I take issue with.

Oh and one more thing. If I was over in Iraq I would want people back at home fighting for me and my opinions. I would do what I had to, and pray that people back home were trying to get us back soon.

Our Government is us, we are the Government, it's called a democracy. Those elected officials that make up the Governing Bodies are fellow citizens, our fellow citizens are making decisions. It's not like they are an entire different society of people, they are our fellow citizens. I am not assuming a lot, I am reading your comments throughout this thread and interpreting them into you saying, "Get the troops out and stop the war. Until you're all out of Iraq, you're not going to get my support." What I'm trying to see is that you need to realize that your comments can be interpreted in many different ways, whether the person reading them is far Left, far Right, or simply in the middle like myself. I chose not to enlist in the armed services simply because it was not something that interests me. Is that saying that I would not fight for my country, not at all. I would give my life for the cause in which we are all here today to preserve: Freedom.

were you in vietnam?

Don't you see how people criticizing their commander in chief, can lead to morale problems and other problems in the time they need to believe 100% in the orders that were given to them?

Exactly!!! :banana: :banana:

No I don't.

No I don't. [/b][/quote]
You're cutting down the Command in Chief based upon his decisions: that in my book is not supporting the solders. You can cut down his beliefs, but you can not cut down the actions he has commenced upon. Why? Bush's beliefs are his own, but his actions are not only his actions, but the Country's actions. Cutting down the Country's actions means not supporting the soldiers, in my book.

It's a good thing i don't read your book.

Shit we'd really have a problem then :lol:
Debating is all in fun, obviously we're entitled to our own beliefs. :woowoo:

Remy, I would recommend you read a book or something on the psychological effects of war on soldiers.And maybe one on Vietnam, not what was happening in Vietnam, but here in the US during the war, and after the soldiers came home.No I'm not somehow comparing this war to Vietnam.

My dad was in Vietnam and I know what it was like when the troops came home. That was because some of them were over there killing women and children and that didn't sit right with the American population.

www.cato.org

Uhhh, nope, better ask your dad again.With these links you post and your references to other people , you are making it clear that these are others opinions you argue and not your own.I'd say if anything you are the impressionable one and not us that think the war in Iraq is justified.

Yep young and impressionable, that's why I disagree with thoughtless disregard of human life.

What does this tell me?

I don't know what it tells you, Iknow that you think you know a lot a shit. I know I don't.

By the way sorry if i share the sam views as someone else.

Yep young and impressionable, that's why I disagree with thoughtless disregard of human life. [/b][/quote]
What do that mean? Bush is trying to convince us that thoughtless disregard for human life is good?

Sorry its kind of hard to do the sarcastic thing on a computer.

You still dont get it that if we didnt intervene with Saddam and the Iraq situation that WE or YOU in other terms are having a
"disregard for human life" by letting us just sit back while a dictator kills his peoiple off for fucking fun.

You are so hypocritical its just sick.

So are you. Should we take a look at the other countries that practice the same things as Iraq? You seem content letting those people suffer. WTF, your so fucking narrow minded.

Should we continue to fund governments that are that way? Fuck no, but we do. You should search around for some of the declassified CIA documents. The freedom of information act has actually led to some alarming revalations.

Hold on fellows, let's keep it to a good debate and not let it turn into a fight :P

Agreed. Things have got a little heated, but I guess thats what politics can do to people.

Where am I hypocritical? I never said that I do or dont have a disregard for human life. You did. What other countries have a dictator that does major genocide to his people? I dont know any public or major countries that do.... I know alot that may have terroristic ties and all that but its just a matter of time before we intervene on them...

Yea Im not getting into a fight its just politics... thats all. ;)

Who would expect that the United States would ever permit an independent Iraqi government to exist? Especially now that Washington has reserved the right to set up permanent military bases there, in the heart of the world's greatest oil-producing region, and has imposed an economic regime that no sovereign country would accept, putting the country's fate in the hands of Western corporations.
--Noam Chomsky

The fact that Bush didn't wait for the UN to help shows that he does not value peoples lives as much as a normal person should. And, if we couldn't convince the UN to go in with us, we maybe should have taken a step back, calmed down, and realize maybe these people have a point and that we're not so almighty.

There are over 6,000 political and religious prisoners in Uzbekistan. That are tortured and killed. The U.S. gave Uzbekistan $500million last year. In Venezuela, U.S. officials were quick to proclaim support for an abortive coup attempt that temporarily displaced the elected president, Hugo Chavez. Why is the U.S. not taking action against regimes in not-so-oil-rich countries such as Zimbabwe? In Zimbabwe, President Mugabe was “reelected” in a highly controversial and corrupt election in 2002. Since then, Mugabe has implemented an oppressive administration that includes seizure of white-owned farms and alleged torture of opposition groups. Nevertheless, his severe crimes do not seem to motivate the U.S. to liberate Zimbabwe’s citizens. Another example of American inaction is in Saudi Arabia; we continue to ally ourselves with the harsh government because it maintains our oil interests in the Arabian Peninsula.

Don't ever fall under the impression that the US is better than every other country from a moral standpoint. We are trying to make money. We want to profit. Don't think that everything we do is for the benifit of the world, cause it isn't. We have flaws just like every other single country.

Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions, zimbabwe and uzbekistan are not, and I doubt they possess WMD capabilites.I also fail to see how either of those can compare to the million+ people that were murdered under Saddam.And how exactly would waiting for UN backing of helped us anyway? The UN isn't a magical fighting force, they are a passive non-action taking waste of the worlds time and money.And the whole oil thing? the biggest bunch of BS I've heard yet, Its not like we can just invade a country and steal their oil, the citizens get paid for it.It also isn't likely that Iraqy oil will make it to the US anyway, so WTF?

Lightning hit my point also... Those other countries are not an immediate threat to the world or the US.

And yea the UN is a joke. They will just sit down and talk about it for 5 years and nothing will get done. Meanwhile saddam gives money to his terroristic friends and has a ball. Saddam never liked the US so why wouldnt he have terroristic friends. Especially when hes a terrorist.

As for the US being morally better than everyone else? Im not saying that. WE are just the strongest and most powerful country there is, therefore we need to keep other countries in check, if they dont comply then we take action... Thats how it should be.

If we go back to democtratic ways this next presidential year there may be a debt solution but thats only becuase they will be saving it becuase they wont be doing anything to protect you or me from terrorists. Instead they will give it to all the drug dealers and crackhoes that want welfare, and say that we are helping the economy. BS

No your right the UN isn't a "magcal fighting force" but what it does represent is a united international organization. So if we would have had their backing it would have been an international effort instead of a US, Britian effort. If we really thought Saddam was such an evil guy back in the late eighties and early ninties we shoulnd' have been supporting him. And should have dealt with him back then when he was a threat. Oh by the way Iraq doesn't have WMD's either. That was just an excuse put together to justify Bush's actions. Sorry if one life isn't as valuable as hundreds or even millions. But if we are going to go around policing people we should take care of everybody at fault.

What in the Fuck are you smoking, that must be some good shit, cause you are fucking delusional. Those other countries are as an immediate threat as Iraq was. And the US taking care of everyone that doesn't comply thats really a great way of thinking, truely democratic. And fuck, Saddam is eveil yes. But not one shred of proof has linked him to terrorism, your pulling that shit out of your ass.

Oh it will be proven. In time my democratic friend, in time. You should really read the whle post and then type One message. Seems like you have a problem with that. ha

How are those other countries an immedaite threat? Do they have the potential to have WMD. Maybe but they dont deny the UN as of yet to check things out.

By the way Iraq does have/had WMD we just havent found them yet becuase they are burried in there desserts or they are hiding in neighboring countries.

Im done. This has been alot of kicks and giggles for me but its just getting old talking about the same old crap. Plus Im leaving to go snowmobiling. Chica bow wow.

Good luck Lightning if your going to kep up the fight :cheers:

Ya this is getting kind of lame, talking in circles. But if you want to keep posting crap I'll keep fighting it.