Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Sucks to hear about the disappointing numbers.

Is a new throttle body really worth all the problems? Has anybody actually made a bunch more power with them or are you the guinea pig?

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

We'll see if its worth it, hopefully it is! I'm the guinea pig though; they were just released last week and there have yet to be any dyno tests performed. Before this getting 65mm ported stock throttle bodies was the way to go. If the Skunk2 doesn't work out I'll probably just get a Mil.Spec 65mm ported stocker.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Thats pretty sweet though! I don't think I'd have the balls to spend money on a part that just came out with no real gains behind it.

Hopefully you get everything figured out sooner than later and start making some more power.

Good luck!

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

There probably wasn't any money spent.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

There was on the throttle body and intake manifold heat-barrier gasket.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

GL with the fix from skunk2!

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Keep in mind the 2whp/nil gains were from just the ported manifold on the STOCK TB (that's what you told me on the phone, right?). The skunk one was not even really included in your test yet, because it leaked so badly. Hopefully you can get it to not leak. Once you do, I'd expect better results! Any gains to be had from a basic port job like this (similar to what I have on my car) will only really be realized with a bigger TB, and port-matching manifold inlet to that TB. Furthermore, on a stock turbo and pump gas, there aren't a ton of gains to be had, even with a more elaborate port job. Hoping for 10whp through this is reasonable though I think, and if ever a bigger turbo is put on this car, the gains will be further realized.

For reference, here is my 65mm TB matched to the IM:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-i...5028.sized.jpg

The stock TB is 60 or 62mm and the skunk2 one is 68mm, so the area of flow is significantly increased by doing this, so improved throttle response and a slew of other little differences make this mod worth the money.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Yes, this was on the stock TB so it was a true representation of adding just a basic ported intake manifold leading be to agree with what Mil.Spec told me of not wasting the money for a basic port-job and just matching the intake manifold inlet to the ported throttle body. Hopefully we can see gains by going deeper into the IM runners/plenum though.

A few random stock specs:
Evo VIII IM inlet = 59mm
Evo IX IM inlet = 61mm
Evo VIII TB = 65mm (inlet) tapering down to 59mm (outlet)
Evo IX TB = 65mm (inlet) tapering down to 61mm (outlet)

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Awesome specs on the stock stuff! I didn't realize the stock TB was tapered.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

If you really want to test the part properly, don't do it at max boost and the limits of the turbo and the limits of your octane. Turn the boost down to 19 or whatever and run a tune that isn't close to the edge and doesn't knock at all. You might also want to flatten out all your timing tables so that it will run the same ignition timing every run. It will be hard to see the true gains of a specific part, if the turbo is maxed or your octane is maxed.

As far as Skunk2, welcome to the world of Honda throttle bodies. Leaks, not matching to the intake manifold, sticky throttles, idle problems, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the 68mm TB didn't lose power in the midrange or not gain much up top. The 1G DSM TB has made 850awhp, Hondas make 500-600+ on their stock TBs. I am not saying that a bigger TB wouldn't help on a car like that, but it isn't a part that is known to be a big gainer on most cars.

I have been disappointed by the bored out TBs, ported intake manifolds, ported/coated exhaust parts on the Evos and Subarus. You are lucky to get 1/10th of the power gains that some of the people hawking these parts claim.

One other potential reason you might not see as big of gains is that you guys are trying to do an objective unbiased test. While some others will make sure to take the worst possible "before" run versus the best possible "after" run.

Scheides needs to put a Red on his car, rev it to 8500 and then some of these types of parts might actually start showing big gains over stock. :)

Sorry, if I am ranting.

Hopefully the Skunk2 TB is a good piece. I hate TBs that are too touchy or sticky.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

What happened to my other ghost post?

Oil filter test in the bigger throttle body?

I think there are better things to be messing with imho. Why people spend hundreds of dollars on throttle bodies as one of the first mods doesn't make any sense to me...

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

It's not a first mod. It's his last mod, as in last ditch effort for max power on pump gas on the stock turbo, without getting to crazy with high comp pistons, ported head, or other fuels. Max peak power is not everyone's main goal. Nice wide powerband with lots of power beneath the curve is what Kracka's goal is here.

The comments about oil filter tests are a little aggravating to be honest. We go through the effort of doing something to better the info available to the community and comments like that kinda wear me down after a while. Taking a shit on our blood/sweat/tears does nothing but make me not want to do something like that again, despite all of the thank you's we received.

Shane, that's the plan :)

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Thanks for the insight, Shane! I do agree with what you said about not running the turbo on the edge. I did turn down the boost to 22 and during each of the pulls I was showing zero counts of knock with a quick 1-count here and there randomly. I also did pull timing back 2* across the majority of the powerband. I am trying to be as objective as possible here; peak torque was consistently up a bit with the ported IM, but it was very small and was within what I considered to be acceptable error. As for the whp with stock we did 3 pulls: 374, 376, 378; with the ported we saw: 375, 376, 380. Again, slightly better results but nothing notable and certainly not high enough to be considered true gains. Now, once the lowest #'s with the new parts are higher than the highest baseline #'s we'll be on to something.

I do also hope this Skunk2 TB is a good piece; it certainly looks nice in all its sexy billet goodness, but if it continues to suck on the car I will not hesitate to send it back to Skunk2 and either stick with stock or find another aftermarket alternative.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

This is hardly one of my first mods. The reason I'm doing this is to try and take my stock turbo/pump gas setup a step further. My goal is 400whp DynoJet/350whp DynoDynamics which is a lofty goal but I'm hoping to accomplish it. I have no interest in getting a larger turbo anytime soon as I feel the stock turbo is a great mix between good top-end power and quick response down low and during shifts. I also am not willing to run E85 or any other alternative fuel for numerous reasons. I'm asking my car to do a lot of things really well and so far it hasn't let me down so if I don't reach my power goals it won't be the end of the world. Its been great as a daily-driver and performed very well for me in autocross; both of those are my reasons for requiring a large powerband with lots of area under the curve.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

We did a little more testing tonight and with some additional porting to the intake manifold runners its sitting at the same peak whp (378-380) but making an additional ~25whp at 7250 rpms.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

16G powa!!

I can honestly say that right now I wish i would of kept mine or went with a new E316G again, power was awesome and would of only gotten better with cams and IM and this sweet transmission i have.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

We're up to 381whp and picked up 8 ft/lbs of torque today while still on the stock throttle body by getting a bit more wild with the "stock" intake manifold.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

We got the Mil.Spec 65mm ported stock throttle body installed today and picked up another 2whp and roughly 10-15 ft lbs of torque depending on the pull putting me at a final 383 whp and 380 wtq on pump gas with the stock turbo. This concludes the intake manifold and throttle body testing.

We were unable to get the Skunk2 68mm billet throttle body to work since it refused to hold air, but this Mil.Spec unit is really a great piece. It feels/drives/idles just like stock so the quality of machining and assembly is definitely on par with the OEM factory. Plus it has high pressure shaft seals which are rated to 25+ psi whereas the stockers are only good until about 7 psi.

I'm sure MAP will post more info about their v1, v2, and v3 intake manifolds within a few days, but I will say my v3 is quite sexy with a semi-gloss black heat dispersant coating. The coating combined with the heat-barrier gasket and TB coolant bypass has left the manifold cool to the touch ever after multiple pulls (stock it would get hot enough to burn your hand). Flowbench testing also confirmed it flows more and the runners are more balanced compared to the stock Evo intake manifold. I'm sure I'll have pictures up tomorrow or Friday.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Sounds good! sounds like it looks pretty nice to, excited for pics!

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

What's next for your car?

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

I'm done power modding, its now time to focus on proper balance. I'm going to a new suspension setup in a few weeks (GSR KYB shocks, Swift Sport springs, and possibly a Whiteline Roll Center Kit) and will be upgrading my brakes (RacingBrake ET500 pads, SS lines, and ATE Super Blue fluid). Eventually I'd love to add more chassis bracing and a lightweight driveshaft.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

You should see about replacing steel parts with aluminum ones after the suspension.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

The Evo body and suspension already has a fair amount of aluminum which is nice. There are some heavy cast iron pieces in the back, but I don't really want to make the car any more front heavy than it already is.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Tonight I fixed my wideband and tightened my throttle cable; tomorrow I plan to replace my cabin air filter and install an AIT (air intake temp) sensor in the intake manifold. I of course forgot to get an ECU pin so I'll need to tap into an existing wire so I can log the temps.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Well the GM AIT sensor in the intake manifold is working perfectly, but my GM BCS took a crap or something because I've pretty much lost all control over my boost. I guess I'll be picking up a DB MBC tomorrow when I'm out there for a Shane-tune. Probably for the best though, I've never really liked it since I got it and its always been more hassle than its worth to me. I think I also damaged my EGT wire when running the AIT wire because the EGT gauge no longer is working. Damn it!

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Broken EGT: I blame it on the new cabin air filter!

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

I got retuned today and am so happy its amazing! I've been having a lot of issues with the GM BCS/ECU-controlled boost so I decided to ditch it and got a new powdercoated black MBC from DB while I was out there today. Shane also mentioned this is the most powerful Evo with stock turbo on pump gas that he's done :D
I'll let the dyno charts speak for themselves; the change was quite impressive.

Red/blue = retune with MBC
Green = as I came in with GM BCS
http://www.dsmstyle.com/photopost/data/547/IMGP1287.JPG

New whp and PSI
Nice and smooth boost curve with a conservative 24psi!
http://www.dsmstyle.com/photopost/data/547/IMGP1288.JPG

New whp and wtq
Nice fat powerband with a lot of area under the curve!
http://www.dsmstyle.com/photopost/data/547/IMGP1289.JPG

Another interesting note to add, my Perrin FMIC is doing a wonderful job, as is the intake manifold coating and barrier gasket b/c my air temps inside the intake manifold are lower than the temps at the MAF.

Thanks again Shane!

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

[Borat]Dat's Niiice![/Borat]

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

I can't believe how different the bcs behaves on they dyno vs the street. I'm glad you switched back to the MBC though; I was getting sick of hearing you whine about the thing ;)

I like the powerband on your car; its sooo phat! Its a wee bit of a shame your top end isn't better, but I think its obvious that the limit of the stock turbo on pump gas has been reached. This powerband shall serve you well for a long long time! This is a nice safe, conservative tune.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Agreed on both counts! I was sick of complaining about the GM BCS because it never worked properly and I think this power level will keep me satisfied for quite a while while I focus on other aspects. The two main draws to the GM BCS for me were quicker spool and more power on the top-end, but on my car neither proved to be true. Spool-up is the same or slightly faster with a MBC, part-throttle boost response is much quicker with the MBC, and as we know my car did not respond favorably to holding more boost in the upper RPM range.

Although I don't think the GM BCS is a "bad" mod per say, it just wasn't a proper mod for me. My car saw no gain in being able to hold more boost in the upper RPM's since it seems to prefer timing up there, and boost is a lot more steady and consistent with the MBC. Plus, its much easier to adjust now. I'm still glad I have the JDM MAP sensor though and have no plans of selling that since its nice being able to log boost. I'll probably go ahead and plug the stock BCS back in for now so I can sell the GM BCS and not get a CEL (until I figure out how to safely disable that in the ECU).

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Lol, I was telling Scheides earlier while his car was on the rollers that he should slap one on his car.

An old-tech $35 part schooling a fancy pants electro-trickery gadget :lol:

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Amen. MBC's are so cheap, and they just work. I'll never run anything else.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Same here..although my DB controller failed on me last dyno session I had..so I got teh basic hallman MBC..hopefully won't ever need another one again!

-A. Swift

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Not bad! But I gotta say, no MBC and a rock solid 20-21 psi FTW ;) haha

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

nice power.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

24 lbs before 3100rpm is spooly good.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Awesome results dude!

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

January 2008 (blue) vs. February 2009 (red):

http://www.dsmstyle.com/photopost/data/547/IMGP1290.JPG

I feel like the car has more top-end in it somewhere, but I'm sure its probably just because then stock turbo is beyond maxed.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

Hmmm good. I agree with floppy.

Re: Whats new with Teh Gheyrod...
 

I installed some Swift Sport springs and nearly new KYB IX GSR SE shocks today.