Re: I just want to take a quick poll...
 

:score010:

Re: I just want to take a quick poll...
 

It's not that I am such an expert, just look at the person I was comparing myself to. Here is quote you made: "I make $60k a year, and my gross is $2307 they take out $697.04 leaving me with $1610 per check. I could use that $700 and make that go along way to making me enter that upper class rank. " Now if you think $697 is half of $2307, I rest my case.

You look at the far left side of things and take them as gospel. There are also people that are far right that would do the same thing. Look up the word "biased" in the dictionary once. I am in the middle and am not real happy with either candidate, I was a Ron Paul supporter. McCain seems mediocre, but Barrack just plain scares me.

How can universal healthcare be a good thing? The government sucks are running things (IRS, social security, medicare, etc.). Why the hell do I want my LIFE to be in their control?? Do some research on goverment run healthcare (Canada, Sweden, etc.) and see if you think it works. Everyone can go in at no charge, why not go in for the sniffles? It will choke the system.

How about gun control? Obama is against concealed carry in any state, voted for a 500% tax increase on ammunition and guns while in IL. He is also for banning most guns and allowing gun companies to be sued if their guns are used in a crime. Should Boeing be sued because their jets were used in the 9/11 attacks? That is just stupid.

You talk about McCain being run by lobbyists. How do you fast track a political career like Obama did? You do anything you can to get to the top. I wouldn't think those would be good things.

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Canadian healthcare is a nightmare. The waiting lines are so long that people are dying before they get help. People who need surgery sometimes end up becoming too sick to have surgery by the time they reach the front of the line and end up dying because of that. A quick search will turn up many reports of how tragic it is.

Tom, communism works in theory too.

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As far as taxes can anyone on here say there taxes have gone up dramatic amounts in the last 8 years?

I am still getting the same % back damn near every year since 2000. I have gotten a refund every year I've ever filed taxes. I have never had to pay in in my lifetime yet.

I don't see how the tax cuts for 250K plus salaries are affecting you Tom. Unless you're claiming higher than you should you should not be paying in.

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Yep. The people like us who pay in don't know WTF they're doing, and the ones who get more than a couple hundred back aren't claiming enough.

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McCains daughter is hot. I was listening to her on the radio the other day.
http://halfsigma.typepad.com/photos/...han_mccain.jpg

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The whole half thing was a meant as an exaggeration. I know 700 is not half of 2300. Gimme a little credit.
Im no expert as well. But when i went to Bemidji State University i was minoring in Political Science and Majoring in MIS (includes classes like Economics, Business analytics and analysis). The minor was just because i was interested in it. But then i finished school at Century College majoring in IT.
I am still not seeing how Barak is Scary? Everyone that says that never seems to back their statements up with any valid, source driven points.
My sister Married a guy from Austria, he said the socialized healthcare system works great over there. No lines, able to get in right away.
I had a roomate that was from Germany, Loved the socialized system as well. The fact that she could go to the hospital no matter what provider she is with is great.
It gives me peace of mind that if i were to lose my job for some reason that My Fiance, my son and I would all be able to get to a hospital without any major bills.
When you sell items that their only purpose is to kill someone or something im fine with that. I believe that if guns are sold without the proper background check hell yes people injured should be able to sue.
Source?
McCain's head guy was getting paid by lobbyists just last month. And i can source that.

Its not that taxes have gone up so much as the fact that the superrich pay a much less of a percentage then the lower and middle class.
If we want our people to prosper and everyone to be happy and healthy and live a good life, then you would want the lower and middle class to have less taxation, and the people who already are content in their lifestyle and have more then enough money should have to pay a little more so that it will benefit our country as a whole. Stop the Greed. Its getting harder and harder for the middle and lower classes to keep their head above water.
Its also not that the taxes have gone up, but the dollar has been tanking more and more each year. Just another form of eliminating the middle class.

The reason John McCain scares me is that he makes too many decisions in the moment, without thinking it through and getting all of the facts. Sarah Palin is the same way if not worse.
As well as their speaking ability. John McCain is not at all good at fielding questions on the fly, which is a huge strongpoint of Obama. In my eyes, if a President cannot speak to the nation he is leading, he should not be in the whitehouse. Communication problems start wars. Look at the great speaking ability of Bush (yeah right) and look at what hes gotten us into.

Honestly in the end I really feel that Obama will take this one, I think McCain is digging his own grave, the media is exposing him left and right and enough people watch TV so i think the polls are going to be much different then the actual election.

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Pretty sure this is wrong. Federal income tax is progressive, the more you make the higher percentage it's taxed at.

Maybe what you're trying to say is Obama wants to make it even more progressive so it's a steeper curve as you make more, whereas MaCain opposes this, I know a lot of republicans support more of a flat tax.

Social Security doesn't follow the same rules though, it's a flat tax, plus it's capped each year.

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle1996735.ece Highly publicized speech by Warren Buffett where he is paying 17% on his taxes, but his secretary who makes $60k a year is getting taxed 30%

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Well you're not talking about normal income there, yes the capital gains tax is a lot lower than regular income tax. So I guess if you make your money on the stock market you're taxed at a lower rate. And I agree this is messed up, since the rich often do make a lot on capital gains.

But a business executive lets say makes $500,000k straight income, not stock options, he's taxed a higher rate than the $60k employee.

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Hellz yeah! He's gettin my vote!

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good vid, he has nothing to back his shit up. Obama gets the media and young people to love him because he says "change" and "Hope". Hes more of a celebrity that a candidate.

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Tom, get a clue. That is because he uses tax shelters and hedge funds that doesn't make sense for the rest of us, or we don't have the disposable income to use. Your tax bracket is 25% and someone making $400k/yr is taxed at 35%.

Now if you really delve into the economics you will know that rich people like that don't sit with the money under their bed and hoard it. They reinvest the money. This leads to extra assets for companies, which allows them to expand, which allows them to hire more people. In my finance class we did scenarios where we lower the taxes on businesses and it created huge differences in the operating capital.

The biggest problem with the economy is shipping our money overseas. Our trade deficit has become rediculous, but for some reason that isn't getting much attention. I'll use the place I just worked at as an example. They would set someone up with a product, lets say a microwave. Target buys this microwave, we would take a small margin off the top (under 5%) and the rest of the money goes to China. So if you buy a microwave from Target for $100, Target gets $30, our company would have got $5, and the other $65 goes to China (those are all approximates). So 2/3 of that purchase was money leaving our country. That is the main reason our economy has tanked lately.

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It took a finance class??? What school?

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Anyone see the Sara Palin Inverview with Katie Curek???

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Yes, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

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How would the first part of this affect the average person? Just because a business is making more money doesn't mean it will go to the workers. The business owner will most likely reinvest it in a way to make even more money.

2nd part-So it would be better for everyone to pay more for just about everything they use daily than get them from another country?

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A flat tax would never work. A flat tax would only help the wealthy. The average person would have to pay a higher tax rate. The wealthiest people in america pay a bigger dollar amount of taxes as it is and making a flat tax would decrease the amount of taxes paid in by the wealthy and increase the rate of the lower classes.

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Does universal healthcare mean the private healthcare industry will go away? I would think those willing to pay would have no problem getting care.

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You are exactly right but you are missing one big part of that equation. More money for small business owners = More money to invest / grow the business = More Jobs. I highlighted the important part ;)

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Hard to grow the business when you cant get a loan. Way to "Save the country" on that one John McCain. (Of course when his "Im going to suspend my campaign and save the country" didnt work he blames the other guy)

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Haha! So the economy turning to shit is now Mccain's fault? Tom... come on.

Sure he wanted to postpone the debates, and to be honest maybe they should have, because we still dont have a bailout deal that they can agree on.

We are F-ed.

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McCain in his press conference said that he was going to suspend his campaign to go work out this deal and get the senate and house running and save this country. McCain put his ownership on it by claiming that by him going to washington it was somehow going to make everything better. Then yesturday he claims that they have reached a agreement (and honestly it should have passed) but in reality McCain had nothing to do with that bill, and when he claims that hes not going to just phone in his vote and that something of this magnitude he really needs to be there and those who phone their votes in arent meant to be leaders, WHAT DOES HE DO? Phones his vote in. GG RETARD. By him taking ownership of this bill (not in the literal) and putting his stamp of approval he said he was going to have his parties backing, The bill did not pass. Sorry John :rude: So what does he do? Blames Obama??? For injecting partisanship into this negotiation??? Who was it that called for the candidates to go to washington for a photo op with the president and senate leaders? If you dont see whats going on you are blind.
are you really saying that those 90 minutes of debate hurt the bill? The people really need to know what the next president is going to do about the economy, and that will go a lot further then john mccain and obama taking pictures in the white house. Hell Obama said that he wanted to stay out of washington and let the Committee do their work, instead of bringing all of the lights and cameras into the problem.

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2 videos Obama's campaign should be using

http://dmiessler.com/blog/the-two-mc...hould-be-using

Im not for either of the 2 candidates personally, so this is just somewhat of a devils advocate on my part. Im sure I could find just the same towards Obamas campaign as well.

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Just because people make more money doesn't mean there will be more jobs. It all depends on the person and the business. I know many small businesses that won't expand no matter how much money they make. People start businesses to make money, not employ people. The same goes for the stock market. People invest in the stock market to generate a return on their money, not to employ others.


I am not set on either canidate, just sharing my point of view in the thread.

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Wow, you almost lost me on this one.

It's like building up a car, you make so much power and once you get used to that, you want to have more to get that feeling that you own a fast car. If a business owner is making more and more money, he very well should be looking into expanding his business to continue the money-making.

You say people start businesses to make money. Well why would they shoot themselves in the foot if they are making more to be able to expand and don't hire more people?

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Tom, watch this and explain how you even sleep at night with supporting your precious Obama and democratic party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

These criminals who ran these banks into the ground have triggered this bailout plan that you now support. The plan that will be funded by tax payers like us, only to give money to people who don't deserve it.

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I am saying people invest to make money, not employ people. Some smaller businesses don't have any plans on expanding. I wonder if any of the local shop sponsors on here plan on going global? Some businesses are comfortable with where they are at. Adding offices and hiring more employees lead to more risks. Some people aren't comfortable taking those risks.

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Sure they dont deserve it, But if we do nothing we run the risk of having a stock market crash (you seen what happened. after the bailout failed). Granted the stock market droping 777 points was mostly in part of fear. But without this bailout it will be near impossible for small businesses to get loans, students to get loans, Possibility of peoples credit card limits to be lowered, etc. This affects everyone, and if you choose to believe the youtube propaganda that the economy isnt going to be affected if we do nothing then you have some reading to do. This really is something i would like to be wrong on, I would love to think everything is peachy keen and everything will be fine if we do nothing, but that just will not be the case.
Obama pushed for more regulation, making the bill not help pay CEO salaries, and taxpayer protections. McCain is for Deregulation and offered no additional input on this bailout. And then tried to take credit for Obama's additions.
You are letting your emotions affect your judgement on this one by saying "Well they got us into this so lets shoot down anything that has dem backing" instead of thinking logically on what is best for this country.

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Saw this on another forum
Taken from Bloomberg.com

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You couldn't be more wrong here. Even if the small business owner doesn't ever decide to expand he will still have more money and therefore be spending more. The more money that is spent the more jobs that are required to make the goods and perform the services being purchased. No matter how you cut it, unless the person is stuffing money under his bed never to see daylight again, more money = more jobs.

Also, please keep in mind that sometimes in order to make more money you need to employ more people. Whether it be a web designer, tax accountant, or even the UPS man.

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Youtube propaganda? Yeah, okay. How about some more Youtube videos of Ron Paul? http://www.connietalk.com/ron_paul_o...my_092908.html

http://www.connietalk.com/george-w-corps.jpg

Government got us in this mess, it's their job to get us out of it. Throwing more money at the problem is not the solution. Since when do you pay off debt with more debt? Do you take out a loan to pay off a loan? Tom, I know you aren't the brightest bulb on the tree but even you aren't that dumb.

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^I gotta get that shirt haha. wait why am i laughing, that shirt pisses me off.

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A lot of wealthy small business owners do just keep their money. I am an accountant and deal with them everyday. The risk is a HUGE issue for small businesses. Most of them do NOT go out and spend the money. They save it. This is even more clear the older the person is/if they started the business on their own.

There are alot of niche markets and that is why small businesses can be successful. Not everyone is going to grow, grow, grow like walmart. It just can't happen.

Even if you pretend that a person making more money will spend it, most of our goods come from overseas anyhow.

There is no proof that an increase in income will lead to an increase in spending or any growth in the company. There are too many large assumptions to be made.

Most small businesses are S-Corps, LLCs, or partnerships anyhow. They don't pay federal taxes, they are passed on to thier individual tax returns. MN charges a fee based on assets, sales, and payroll (called apportionment) which is relatively small (usually 0, $100, $300, $1000). The larger the apportionment the more the pay. I believe you have to have over $1 million (weighted total) for the $100 fee anyhow.

Small businesses are not killed by taxes. The owners bitch that they get charged with self employment taxes but a mediocre accountant can make the benefits of owning a business greater than the tax.

There is no tax that will ever kill a business or hold one back. If you don't make money, you don't have to pay the tax. Plain and simple.

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The reason the dam bill didn't pass is because nobody wanted to get their name behind voting for it. They know when they are up for election, they will see their name on TV saying: .... supported the $700 billion bailout of corporate america and he will raise your taxes.

Hard to pass a bill when 66% of all republicans voted against it.

It was clear when they were working on the bill that they didn't want Obama and McCain their. I can't believe that McCain tried pulling the: "I am going to put my campaign on hold" way out of the debate. It is like he thinks everyone is stupid. McCain wouldn't add any value. He tried all he could to get his name on this and it failed because of his republican party.

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talk about a backfire. And then blames obama. Real Smart.
Sad thing it is that this election has more drama then a TV Show. Granted ill be sitting with popcorn watching Sarah Palin show the world just how stupid she really is. :)

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I can't wait to see the interview. I don't have any idea how people can try to back her. She is just too stupid. Just the thought of her being the second in charge is freightening. What happens if McCain can't serve his term??? We are screwed!

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Wouldn't it be more effective to give a tax break to consumers? Everyone would benefit. Consumers would spend their extra income at businesses and businesses would have more money from the increased spending. They could then use that money to grow their business, buy crap or put under their matress.

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Interesting power point someone sent to me.