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-   -   Hesitates after 7lbs... (http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18168)

tpunx99GSX 01-14-2008 05:20 PM

Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
I have a friend with a 2g GST.
Mods:
S16g turbo
SAFC
AVCR
550cc injectors
FMIC
Intake
Exhaust

For some reason or another after he spools and around 3500 rpms the car will hesitate and not accelerate any more, then we change gears and it does the same thing.
Its almost as if its hitting a wall at 3500 rpms.
I did a boost leak check and fixed a small leak on the TB, now there are no leaks.
Checked timing and it was perfect at 5 BTDC.
Safc i have set at -8 across the board.
I disconnected the AVCR to make sure that wasnt having any issues, still does it.
Checked the plugs, The tips were white, and the gap backed out to .035 but i wouldnt think that would be a major issue.
Any ideas?

JET 01-14-2008 05:29 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
It is the plugs probably. If you checked the gap, why didn't you close them down? Get them gapped down to .028".

Shane@DBPerformance 01-14-2008 05:55 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Spark plugs and too rich? Come on. The first thing you should have tried was a new set of spark plugs with them gapped to .028" at the biggest.

brando 01-14-2008 07:57 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
its a miss for sure. hes hitting fuel cut. DON'T RUN IT ANYMORE. you may need to advance the timing a bit. the car is leaning out not running too rich. if it were running rich they would be black and he would be puffin black smoke

JET 01-15-2008 12:04 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brando (Post 223945)
its a miss for sure. hes hitting fuel cut. DON'T RUN IT ANYMORE. you may need to advance the timing a bit. the car is leaning out not running too rich. if it were running rich they would be black and he would be puffin black smoke

Ignore this guy. He isn't hitting fuel cut at 7 psi. You also have no idea if he is running lean or rich. His SAFC settings would indicate he is pretty rich.

crazy_skier 01-15-2008 07:38 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
i had this happen.... new spark plug wires will take care of it. Try it :D

FFPerformance 01-20-2008 12:03 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JET (Post 224017)
Ignore this guy. He isn't hitting fuel cut at 7 psi. You also have no idea if he is running lean or rich. His SAFC settings would indicate he is pretty rich.

I'd have to disagree with you... spark plug basics 101, reading spark plugs.....

If you pull them and they are wet and black, then you are most likely too rich (possible oil consumption as well)
If you pull them and they are dry and white, then you are most likely too lean (as the original poster stated)
If you pull them and they are a 'toast' or tan color, then you are in the right area for an appropriate afr.

I would double check the wideband sensorys you're usuing to tune the SAFC and make sure that they are in working order. Perhaps cross check the wideband with one from a dyno? I can see how the safc could have been adjusting fuel based on what it thought was a rich reading, and causing a lean condition if the sensors are going out.... sometimes leaded fuel accelerates them wearing out too...

good luck!

$.02

FFPerformance 01-20-2008 12:04 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Oh and double check your injectors as well

xveganxcowboyx 01-20-2008 12:20 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
An SAFC does not adjust fuel on it's own. It's a user input device.

Super Bleeder!! 01-20-2008 12:21 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Since when did afcs have sensors?

FFPerformance 01-20-2008 12:26 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!! (Post 224527)
Since when did afcs have sensors?

so you just randomly pull or add fuel without knowing the afr then?

Sorry I was making an assumption that a wideband was being used...

crazy_skier 01-20-2008 02:15 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
try the plug wires.... i'd had this problem happen on my car and on my buddy's stock gst. Both times they were the plug wires and it would just get worse and worse

Kracka 01-20-2008 02:25 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Like lots of other people have said new, properly gapped, spark plugs will be the best place to start.

xveganxcowboyx 01-20-2008 03:14 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
For rizzle. Until that's done we can stop speculating.

b00stcreep21 01-20-2008 03:26 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
There's a million different things that could be wrong w/ it. You need to be more specific with what's happening. Internet diagnosis usually gets you nowhere, besides giving you around 6 different places to start.. Is it missing at 3500, or does it just stop trying to rev completley like if you turned the key off? Does it ONLY do it at 7psi, or just whenever it's at 3500 like at part throttle too? What do your a/f ratio's do when it's doing the issue?

JET 01-21-2008 01:36 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FFPerformance (Post 224524)
I'd have to disagree with you... spark plug basics 101, reading spark plugs.....

If you pull them and they are wet and black, then you are most likely too rich (possible oil consumption as well)
If you pull them and they are dry and white, then you are most likely too lean (as the original poster stated)
If you pull them and they are a 'toast' or tan color, then you are in the right area for an appropriate afr.

I would double check the wideband sensorys you're usuing to tune the SAFC and make sure that they are in working order. Perhaps cross check the wideband with one from a dyno? I can see how the safc could have been adjusting fuel based on what it thought was a rich reading, and causing a lean condition if the sensors are going out.... sometimes leaded fuel accelerates them wearing out too...

good luck!

$.02

Disagree all you want, it doesn't make you right. Also, it is difficult to really read a plug on a street car. To read a plug you need to shut the engine off immediately after a full throttle pull and then pull the plug, that is not really feasible on a street car. Also, it was never stated that the car had a wideband, so it likely doesn't. If you knew about DSM's, you would know that .035" gap is WAY too big and causes issues just like what was stated. DSM's are picky on the plug gap.

Shane@DBPerformance 01-21-2008 01:43 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
White plugs means they are new plugs, not necessarily lean.

xveganxcowboyx 01-21-2008 03:17 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JET (Post 224606)
If you knew about DSM's, you would know that .035" gap is WAY too big and causes issues just like what was stated. DSM's are picky on the plug gap.


To add to this, they are also very picky about plugs in general. Make sure they are the OEM plug and not some fancy platinums or anything stupid like that.

Scrmegl 01-22-2008 02:36 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
My car ran horrible on platinums. Do not use them.

tpunx99GSX 01-22-2008 03:26 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Sorry i forgot about this thread.
We tried new plugs gapped at .028, still happens, hes coming over this weekend and we will try some more shit like swapping wires, possible coil pack.
Quote:

its a miss for sure. hes hitting fuel cut. DON'T RUN IT ANYMORE. you may need to advance the timing a bit. the car is leaning out not running too rich. if it were running rich they would be black and he would be puffin black smoke
Hes not hitting fuel cut at 7psi on 550cc injectors and a small 16g. I know what fuel cut feels like.

tpunx99GSX 01-22-2008 03:28 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx (Post 224615)
To add to this, they are also very picky about plugs in general. Make sure they are the OEM plug and not some fancy platinums or anything stupid like that.

They are the only plugs that I personally would ever run in my car. NGK BPRxES. (he has the 6's i run 7's)

Kevin 1G Drummer 01-22-2008 06:52 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xveganxcowboyx (Post 224615)
To add to this, they are also very picky about plugs in general. Make sure they are the OEM plug and not some fancy platinums or anything stupid like that.

I completely burned up a set of NGK Platinum plugs in about 4 months of normal daily driving. I've had the set of regular NGK plugs in my car for about 8 months now, and they're still in really good condition.

xveganxcowboyx 01-22-2008 10:38 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Exactly. I tried Bosch platinums when i first got my Talon. The thing broke up badly in the higher rpms. NGK BPR7's for me now.

crazy_skier 01-29-2008 02:47 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
any word on what it was??

Project2G 02-11-2008 05:06 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Did this ever get resolved?

johnson 03-11-2008 11:35 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
i think i am having the same problem with my 1g...
ive done a boost leak test, new plugs, and after i replaced a bad injector, it was boosting great.... then i took it out again and was gonna get some gas, then it just stopped boosting after 2500 rpm..... i was wondering if its the turbo???? i checked the wastegate and it still opens but i could not control the amount of psi going in before it opened...

i might pick up some new wires later... thats what im hoping itd be....

niterydr 03-12-2008 10:14 AM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnson (Post 232255)
i think i am having the same problem with my 1g...
ive done a boost leak test, new plugs, and after i replaced a bad injector, it was boosting great.... then i took it out again and was gonna get some gas, then it just stopped boosting after 2500 rpm..... i was wondering if its the turbo???? i checked the wastegate and it still opens but i could not control the amount of psi going in before it opened...

i might pick up some new wires later... thats what im hoping itd be....


Stopped building boost completly? How does the car run otherwise?

johnson 03-12-2008 05:08 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
it runs perfect before boost... but once it starts boosting it just sounds like a lot of backed up exhaust built up... and no boost reading or goin through... but once you get up on rpm.... it starts to read a little boost...

niterydr 03-12-2008 05:45 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnson (Post 232349)
it runs perfect before boost... but once it starts boosting it just sounds like a lot of backed up exhaust built up... and no boost reading or goin through... but once you get up on rpm.... it starts to read a little boost...

Pull your intake and check your turbo for shaft play.

Another "test" is you can temporarily unhook your wastegate and CAREFULLY watch your boost. You should build boost and very quickly without boost control.

DO NOT let it swing past 15psi as that is all you need for the test.

johnson 03-12-2008 05:50 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
i checked the turbo and ran the wastegate straight through... still same results...

DSM_421 03-13-2008 07:12 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Coudln't wires have something to do with that as well, not just the plugs... I mean they go bad as well.

johnson 03-14-2008 11:20 AM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
i replaced wires too... not that... im gonna do a more thorough leak test this weekend... im pissed!!!

Halon 03-14-2008 11:38 AM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
So you completely unhooked the WG line, and you are not building boost? Am I understanding this correctly? If that's the case, I'd look at your turbo.

johnson 03-14-2008 12:01 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
it still feels like it wants to go but it just cant... you feel power/ no power/ power/ no power... i think the turbo is still boosting, just not through the motor or somethin... beats me... i dont wanna replace turbo in a car i dont plan on keeping!!!

Halon 03-14-2008 12:34 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
You think it's boosting? Do you not have a boost gauge? If you don't have a boost gauge, that should be one of the first things you get for that car.

Something else to check is your ignition timing. Check that and tell us what it's at. If you are in fact boosting just fine, but the car is extremely sluggish, your ignition timing may be off, causing a ton of knock, which is what is making your car accelerate so poorly.

niterydr 03-14-2008 12:34 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnson (Post 232720)
it still feels like it wants to go but it just cant... you feel power/ no power/ power/ no power... i think the turbo is still boosting, just not through the motor or somethin... beats me... i dont wanna replace turbo in a car i dont plan on keeping!!!

What did your BOOST GAUGE say when you unhooked the wastegate?

johnson 03-14-2008 12:53 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
same thing as it had all along...
nothing until maybe 3.5 rpm then about 7lbs...

Halon 03-14-2008 02:35 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
There, was that so hard? You need to provide as much info as possible when you're having others trying to diagnose your problem over the internet.

So with your wastegate unhooked, you're seeing a max boost of 7psi by 3.5k rpm's, and it never goes above that? Assuming your gauge is installed correctly and reading correctly, I'd say you either have a MAJOR boost leak, or the problem is pointing to your turbo/wastegate.

niterydr 03-14-2008 03:00 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon (Post 232762)
There, was that so hard? You need to provide as much info as possible when you're having others trying to diagnose your problem over the internet.

So with your wastegate unhooked, you're seeing a max boost of 7psi by 3.5k rpm's, and it never goes above that? Assuming your gauge is installed correctly and reading correctly, I'd say you either have a MAJOR boost leak, or the problem is pointing to your turbo/wastegate.

Winner!

Here I will write a proof for you.

If no boost leaks, then dead turbocharger.

If dead turbocharger, then dead exhaust housing or excessive shaft play.

case closed.

JET 03-14-2008 03:00 PM

Re: Hesitates after 7lbs...
 
Does it spit and sputter some? When a car is misfiring it can do that type of thing. I would do a boost leak check first, then go from there.


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