1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Ok, so I want to run e85 in my car this spring, and I was looking to get some 1650s. I was planning on tuning it for pump gas as well, and was wondering am I gonna run into a lot of problems with pump gas and injectors that big?

60lb/min bolt on turbo
ecmlink v3 (will be buying asap)
1g w/ stockish 6 bolt.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Those seem a bit larger then what you need. I'd get something sized a little more appropriately for your setup. Everyone I've heard of using 1600's had WORSE idle/drivability on pump. So if you're going to be running pump, I'd definately look into injectors matched closer to your setup rather then just going with huge ones.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I would go with the 1600's. Once you start tuning with E85 you're gonna fall in love with it anyway. So I highly doubt you will be running pump gas very often unless your about to run out of gas. The 1600's should supply you enough fuel.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I got Bluemax 1650s today lol.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

they be pretty!

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Damn thats a huge injector. Do you think you'll need that much flow for your setup on E85? How many fuel pumps are needed to supply that kind of fuel?

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I would say the 1600's would do him fine but hell.. why not go all out! I've seen people with around the same setup using 1600's fine with E85. He's gonna need at least dual Walbro's..

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I doubt 1650's are needed for his setup. I hope they work out well for you, but personally I would have gone with something a little smaller to aid in drivability. Let us know how those new injectors work out for you.

Also, what fuel pump setup are you running? Just dual in-tanks?

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Most people must go way overboard on injectors at the mention of E85. Are you going for 1000hp?

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

1650's would support around 800 max crank horse at a base fuel pressure of 45 psi.

With the fact of using e85 and also the fact there the Blumax injectors, there shouldnt be any issues.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

You think you can make 1000hp with 4 1600's and e85? haha

I personally don't think 1600s are too crazy with e85. Looking at past logs I have been in the very high 70's to low 80's% with injector duty cycle flowing around the 60lb/min'ish with my turbo. I think my car idles pretty damn good on e85 and I like the fact if I ever upgraded a little bit my injectors could handle it. Hell if I wanted something that was idled perfectly, was good on gas mileage, comfy, easy to drive I'd just go get a nice buick.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I'm not too concerned about driveability. I'll get over it. I was planning on getting Rau's used FIC 1600's, but he never got back. I then was up in the air with 1350s vs 1650, and said Eff it. I know quite a few with "old style" 1600's (even though I'm skeptical about these Bluemax's really being "better") that say the idle is fine and 1600s are ok.

And no, I don't plan on making "1000 hp"

I'm sure I'll be ok with one pump, if I need another I'll just throw in a second walbro.

And if these injectors are really end up being horrible, worst case, I can always sell and get new ones.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

lol "837 HP @ 43.5psi for turbo-charged applications 80% IDC" So I'll be like at 40% duty cycle.
Actually more maybe since using ethanol correct?

My biggest concern was if I tried using pump gas with these. Where like 880s would be enough really.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

If you have a link to proof that the Bluemax injectors idle better and work better at low throttle, please show me the link. All I've heard is hype. Every vendor, including FIC, that I've asked this question to would not comment back.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

^True. I am also waiting for some real world proof.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

So what should he use oh great one?

On a lighter note Kevin, you might want to copy my fuel pump setup.
(SEE ATTACHMENT) :bling::smoking:

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Right. Are those your hands? Did you fall into a puddle of bleach?

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

hahhaahaha

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

would you post a pic of the spray end of one?

I have the old 1600's, on E85 idle is ok, but cold start up is a long drawn out bitch of a process. I am anxious to find out if the bluemax injectors actually have a better spray pattern.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I took the pic genius. :loser:

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I recently traded my old 1600s out for the new bluemax 1350s. Cold startup is about the same but not too bad if it's above zero outside. If you're just going to use a single pump the 1350s will outflow one which is why I downgraded, the part throttle hesitation on the 1600s got annoying (even with e85, can't imagine how much worse it would be on pump).

There is no way I'd run these on pump gas for a daily driver though.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

we'll see how it works this spring!

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I currentley have 1600's for e85, Idles at about 1000 rpms, But here and there at idle, the afrs go a little crazy and the car revs up and down a bit. No boost leaks, correct fuel pressure, etc, yadda yadda yadda. They actually run great on the freeway, no cutting out or bogging after I got my trims dialed in.

But, this spring i may upgrade to the bluemax 1650's so I can hopefully lower the idle and get it to idle smoother. I also see they have 1850's, and i thought 1650's were over board.

I really doubt either injector could run regular pump, but then again, nobody will know until someone trys it.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I remember a guy on link trying them out before he switched to e85 and he said he felt like he was pulling a huge trailer on the freeway, constant hesitation/bucking because the AFRs would go 13:1 then 18:1 and back.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

If you have an ajustable FPR just lower the base pressure a bit (instead of 43psi which is stock I believe). They should just work out fine for you on E85.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I am not concerned how they will work with E85.

I was/am concerned how they will work if I use pump gas. I was planning on just getting a rough tune with pump while I learn a lot about tuning and DSMLink. Then I was gonna switch over to E85 when I was more comfortable with it. Or I could just fill it up with e85 and bring it to the dyno. But I wanna try tuning it myself.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I think you will find that it may be easier to tune the e85 over 91 pump. 1600's are MUCH friendlier with E85 than with 91. I set my global and dead time according to some threads I read on the link forums, installed the 1600's, filled up with E85 and she fired up, idled and ran decent with a little bit of back firing. Did some adjusting to correct the trims and the car ran great.

Pump, IMO, is gunna require more tuning before the car will even really be driveable. So if you have allot to learn about link still, I would reccomend starting your tuning with E85. Plus E85 doesnt detonate as quickley as 91 pump, so it gives you a safer fuel to learn how to tune with.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

^^Very very true. I would start off with E85 just for the safety factor.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Ok, sounds like a plan. I've got over half a tank of premium, should i just drain the shit, and bring some e85 over once the car is in running condition?

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Thats what I did once I converted over. Save the gas for a lawn mower or something haha.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

My stock civic! vroooooooooooooooooooooooom bitch, PREMIUM!

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Maybe not, but definitely 900allwheel-dynojet-hp / over 1000bhp, comparing my injectors to the 1650's using an injector calculator from RC. I'm flowing almost 40lbs/min of airflow and running 750cc injectors putting down 414hp/459torque with my 16G. Those 1600's are more that double the injector I'm running. I know my injectors aren't ever maxed; even in the snowy freezing winter I have enough injector to richen my tune up considerably from what I actually run (yes I've tried it just to see). How rich are you wanting to run anyways? Maybe all the fuel isn't getting up to your injectors?

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Yes, drain it, DO NOT mix it with 91. I didnt drain it, and the trims fluctuated for a few tanks and I think it was because pump/110 was still mixed in there. I could smell the 110 for a long time. So, yes, drain it so it is pure.

Also, remember there is E70 and E85 depending on the time of year, if you dont already know. Each will require some changes in your tune so pay attention each time you fill up.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

No way 1600's would be good enough for 900 wheel hp. I was at 68% duty cycle with 1350's at 38 base fuel pressure, making 380 on Map's dyno (e85). Maybe if you ramped up fuel pressure but I would still highly doubt it.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I installed my 1600's when I was on 91. Dialed them in best I could. Ran the car until she was damn near running on fumes, then filled it to the top with E85. Re-dialed it in and it ran way better on E85.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

My cousin is at 321hp with 680's on E85; look where I'm at with 750s. There's also a guy on tuners with like 440 with 750's. Your 1350's at 38psi are actually like 1260's. Also, there's a big difference between 68% (856cc) and 80%(1008cc) duty cycle, but how much fuel you are using depends on your tune not just your hp (and if the fuel is actually getting to the injectors). Most people I've seen on tuners seem to run E85 really rich - like 11:1 gas afr, which is actually 7.3:1. I can hear my car misfiring if I go even close to that crazy rich and I know I loose power as I go richer (even before misfiring). How I drive, if my tune wasn't safe my engine would be gone -- I could never be as hard on my engine on a drag strip as I am on the road.

I pretty much consider the duty cycle a theoretical number; some people have claimed at times to see higher than 100% duty cycle with no issues-- is that actually possible - NO.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

again, i gotta say it.but you will max out your pump before you max out 1600's. pump setups man, pump setups.

I'm getting my old 1600's from andrew back, and will run them, but i got dual 310lph pumps..

-A. Swift

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Yup; IDC definitely isn't exact with the stock ECU's. I saw a max of 119.5% with my stock injectors and Scheides saw almost 130%.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

Anyone know why, is there just something wrong with the formula used to calculate it? I would never go by IDC alone, I say richen it up some and if your AFR's still match up you're good.

Re: 1650cc injector and pump/e85 question
 

I'm guessing that must be it; or maybe 100% IDC as logged by the ECU is what they feel the ideal maximum to be? It seems like anywhere above ~115% and fueling issues begin to occur.