First of all, I think all points have been argued in other threads.I downloaded the movie tonight.I could barely make it through the first 5 mins, it seems to me, anyone with a greater than junior high capability of logical reasoning can defeat nearly all Michael Moores arguments in this movie.Michael Moore does an excellent job of taking out-of-context statements(made by Bush, etc) and very narrow minded single sided "evidence" to serve his "points".I have this video in decent quality if anyone wants to see it(I feel sorry for anyone who paid to see this) and make their own opinions.Its 530MB and I can burn it to a cd.PM me if interested.

finally, someone who understands.

maybe remy should chime in on this topic

I unfortunately payed 8 dollars to see it...I would much rather have the hour and half back than the 8 dollars wasted.

I'd say quietly slip it out to as many boards as possible to cut down on the DVD profits to come. This ass-clown doesn't need any more money to further a silly cause/campaign.

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Yep, support the losing team. :thumbsup:

we will see ;)

I've seen enough already, haven't you? Open your eyes.

You must not have noticed, the majority of America is still supporting Bush.And it seems to me, people in general don't like Kerry or his senate record.And not to mention the dub is more than likely gonna rip Kerry a new asshole when the debates start.I think even most democrats know they're defeated already.

99% of people that support Kerry are supporting him because he is not George Bush. They are blind to what his personality is and his previous voting record. I give Bush 6 out of 10 and Kerry 2 out of 10. I am not real happy with Bush, but he is a lot better person than Kerry is.

looks like you are! :lol:

How is he?

Kerry has no chance. If he put his neck out and stood behind something, ANYTHING, this would be a landslide election, because a lot of people hate bush and the war. At least that was my biggest gripe of John kerry.

Republicans have bad ideas
but Democrats don't have any.

I can't stand all these college kids around me in my apartment building who are all "Stop the war" and "Stop Bush". And I'm sure they all saw that ass clown's movie, and were sold.

So young, so impressionable.


BUSH CHENEY 04'.

I wouldn't say a landslide.There's still the fact Kerry has a history of voting against things that will help save our soldiers lives, and in this time of war, I don't think americans could overlook that regardless of what he stands behind.

kerry is a "girly man."

Im penciling in Arnolds name! :jammin:

Almost forgot, Kerry did commit treason during the vietnam war.Thats not a likable quality in a president.

What did he do?

Do you have a source?

Thanks,

Noah

Do you guys think that we should give a break to companies who ship jobs out of the country instead of having them here?

Shouldn't we give a break to companies who do not ship away jobs and tax the ones who do more $$$?

Well, I agree with you there. Just try to understand that almost half of every big business (LLC) profits go towards taxes. It is about 44% taxation rate.

I think ever company should be treated the same.. so No I dont agree with Bush on everything but in the big picture he is the one at this time.

I would love to read the tax laws that the KKK (Krooked Kerry Koalition) is basing half of their tax related advertisments on.

Kerry did "negotiate" with the enemy during Vietnam.I do have a source, his own testimony to the senate foreign relations commity in the 70's.Anyway that happens to be against the law, and compromising with communists(during a war where americans are dying) is considered treason in my book.He also, in a press conference a year later, openly avocated the "North Vietnamese peace plan"(which was basically a U.S. surrender agreement) and recommended Nixon adopt the plan.Yep, Kerry is a model american.

Yep, a traitor for a presidential nominate and a draft-dodger for a former president. Way to go democratic party. :headache:

Not to mention that Kerry threw his medals over the white house fence while he was still a Navy officer!!

That and getting 3 purple hearts in 4 1/2 months of being at war is pretty crazy (the last 2 were self inflicted). After 3 purple hearts you get to go back home, think that wasn't planned? I don't want a spineless wimp running our country. Bush may not do everything right, but at least he has balls and makes a stand.

AH what the hell, might as well jump into the fire...

That's just the problem with Bush. He jumps into crap, is too "gung-ho" in his policies. Iraq posed no immediate, if any, threat. Who the hell would put their own countrymen into a situation where they can die? Plus, not to mention a large majority of the world is not happy with the US anymore due to Bush. This international cowboy act is starting to piss people off. Granted, not everyone liked the US before Bush, but I think it's safe to say after he came into office, it all got worse. Hell, even the UK citizens don't really like their head honcho due to his backing of our pres. Spread the love...spread the love.

Don't get me wrong, I may come off as pro-Kerry. I don't classify myself as either democrat or republican, i just think Bush is an idiot who is too forceful of a president, while Kerry has alot of shady sides to him as well. Honestly, I don't like either candidates, which is sad cause now i don't think i'll vote. I refuse to vote for Kerry just to get Bush out, and Bush sure as hell ain't gettin a check in his box...and the independents/green party are just leeches from the main parties.

Not safe to say that at all.

Sure it got worse because right after he became president we got attacked.... :headache:

After a long down in our economy due to people having safety issues and not buying anything since 9/11 we are finally getting back up and running.

Our economy is going up, has any one ever been to the govt website and looked at the employment rates from the past 10 years? It is really interesting to see.

Go ahead look: http://stats.bls.gov/cps/home.htm#tables

Sure unemployment went up right at 2002 but gee I wonder why- 9/11. Now its holding steady with what it was 3 years ago and it only dipped during Clintons era becuase he didnt have anything to worry about, no planes crashing into building or wars going on. Just the easy life thats why the economy did so well in the 90s.

:blah: fricken :blah:

That's not what im talking about. The economy is a different issue from what i'm adressing here. What I mean, is anti-americanism has gone up since bush took office. Mainly Iraq and his policy over there. The way I see it, Bush's actions post 9/11...maybe even post afghanistan, have spreaded anti-americanism all over the damn place. Last time i checked Germany was pretty good with us before bush, as was france, and the rest of europe. Plus the entire middle east was just kinda 'whatever', now it's more like 'die america'. Lovely.

Plus he's still a moron...I won't ever feel comfortable with a moron as our leader of the free world...

If Bush is a "moron" then Kerry must be a super- retard.

Germany and France can suck it.

Theres always going to be someone who doesnt like the US. Whether its becuase we started a war, or we didnt help win one. We cant win all the time so we do our best. And he wasnt hated by everyone until he decided to attack Iraq without the UN and other countries approval.

i love people that equate akward public speaking with being a moron. i know and have known many geniuses who would be frozen in their tracks stuck before a classroom to speak, much less the world.

look at his education. look at his wealth. look at his position. sorry, not a moron. and don't give me that shit about "his family got him where he is". well, that would mean his family is smart. smart people aren't going to elevate or have the ability to elevate an idiot to represent them.

...I truly hope you're not calling Bush a genius based on the fact he can't speak properly in public...what a damn joke.

I will admit I don't know all that much about either candidate, so I won't get that involved with details, but Bush will never go down in history as being one of the more intelligent presidents.

And how is the family angle shit? With a background so incredibly involved with politics how the hell wouldn't they have an influence on how he got there? His family history by itself is enough to negate the fact that he's where he is soley under his own power.

His wealth is from his prior oil companies and ties with other people. Once again, a vast majority of this, at least the OPERTUNITIES to do so, were basically given to him.

I'm not pro-kerry, remember that. I'm just anti-bush and (to this point) neutral to kerry. I could care less about kerry's inteligence, I said before that neither of them are very good candidates.

Germany and france can suck it eh? There's that stupid cowboy gung-ho WE CAN TAKE ON THE WORLD BY OURSELVES bullshit that is fucking up our ties with other countries, our worldy image, and our status as 'good guys' compared with terrorists ourselves. Once again, by doing this, we're simply spreading anti-americanism across the damn globe. PEOPLE DO NOT LIKE WAR. You can't argue that. And OBVIOSULLY people will hate him when he does something without the approval of the UN. The whole point of the UN is a global team basically, and if one part of that team goes off and does everything opposite of what they are 'supposed to do', then people will see that in a negative light.

God politics make me mad :headache:

Poeple dont like war but victims also dont like being raped murdered, abused and such by their own ruler.

We helped France and Germany in the past and they didnt want to help out at all so we left them behind. Thats what is really frusterating, not that we ditched them but they ditched us.

I'll vote for Ralph Nader. That way I can sleep at night knowing neither Kerry or Bush had my balls in a salad shooter on election day.

Could you ship it to japan? If so lemme know, I'd love a copy. I kinda doubt they are going to release that here on a military base.

thats not what Kerry was preaching in 98 under clinton when he openly critisized the clinton administration fo not taking action against saddam. Nor pror toi the war in 2001 when he said Iraq posed an imminent threat against middle eastern nations and to the United states as a weapons distributor to the terrorists that would later attack the us. Words from kerry himself. Kerry actually classified saddasm as a terrorist who needed to be dealt with. and also said that president bush reserved the right to act unilatterally against Iraq with out support from the U.N. Kerry is only changin what he says aboput the war now because of the momentum that Howard dean recieved from the democratic party and democrats in general for being an anti war candidate. He changed his mind cuz it was convienient. Thats a hell of a leader. In this country we need someone who will stick to his guns in spite of adversity. I would respect Kerry alot more if he would have not flip flopped. Kerry is out to win an election however he can and then once in office will behave totally different than we expect. He is a two faced liar that plays to public opinion. He should just step up to the plate and do what he started to in vietnam. Maybe he could accidently kill himself trying to get a 4th purple heart.

FOR THE LAST TIME I'M NOT PRO-KERRY. If you want to argue with me, don't bring kerry into it because frankly, I don't care.

My eyes are wide open, and do you know what I see? Probably not, because you are so focused on saving face that you will say anything to elevate yourself.

In 2000 when Bush was running for President he said that he thought that our military was spread to thin across the globe and that the US should not get into the buisness of nation building. This was great because it appeased his ultra conservative base and brought in the moderate liberals as well.

Fast forward to September 2001. The US just experienced one of, if not the greatest tragedy's in our nations history. We are swift in our retaliation on the Taliban in Afgahnistan, and with the support of the world we are able to rid the Taliban from leadership. This was indeed necessary, because the Taliban directly funded and harbored the terrorists that attacked us on September 11, 2001.

Ok that was all fine and dandy, until we started hearing that Iraq somehow ended up next in the cross-hairs. As much as people would like to believe, Saddam did not support Bin Laden and his or any terrorists that attacked the US. But for some unknown reason Bush felt it necessary to go after Saddam.

He used proof whether good or bad to make his case. He used the facts that Iraq at one time did indead have chemical weaponry as proof that they not only currently had them but were going to use them against us. The sarine gas that Bush used to scare us, turns out to have had a shelf life of only 2 months. So that had become usless about 13 years ago.

Now here we are today, our military spread very thin, shown by the number of national guard and reserves that have been called up. In the process of building a nation. So to say that the majority of Americans support Bush is asinine. He has upset a large set of his ultra conservative base as well as liberals and some moderates. Afgahnistan was acceptible because we were retaliating against the actual enemy. Iraq is something comletely different. If you say that Iraq was a threat to the US, this is what I say: North Korea is a threat to the US. They have proven working nuclear weapons. So on Bush's crusade he chose a "threat" he knew he could handle. That being Iraq which had no WMD's and not North Korea which could actually put on an attack against us.

As for your comments on the debates, Bush is already trying to back out of the first town hall debate in the beginnging of October. Where as Kerry has said that he would like to debate once a week until November 2nd.

Oh shit I forgot, Kerry's voting record. I will limit it to he support of the war. Kerry indead support giving Bush the power to go to war to have a good bargaining tool with the UN. Here's what Bush said " That will be part of the resolution, the authorization to use force. If you want to keep the peace, you've got to have the authorization to use force. But it's -- this will be -- this is a chance for Congress to indicate support. It's a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration's ability to keep the peace. That's what this is all about." So he did so trusting that Bush would take care of this great responsibilty. Bush did not. And now Kerry is simply saying that Bush did not handle the situation correctly.

You say Kerry flip flops(what a fucking stupid slogan) well umm... so is Bush:
If he is a flip-flopper, Kerry has company.

_In 2000, Bush argued against new military entanglements and nation building. He's done both in Iraq.

_He opposed a Homeland Security Department, then embraced it.

_He opposed creation of an independent Sept. 11 commission, then supported it. He first refused to speak to its members, then agreed only if Vice President Dick Cheney came with him.

_Bush argued for free trade, then imposed three-year tariffs on steel imports in 2002, only to withdraw them after 21 months.

_Last month, he said he doubted the war on terror could be won, then reversed himself to say it could and would.

_A week after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Bush said he wanted Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." But he told reporters six months later, "I truly am not that concerned about him." He did not mention bin Laden in his hour-long convention acceptance speech.

Did Bush go to Vietnam?

My eyes are wide open, and do you know what I see? Probably not, because you are so focused on saving face that you will say anything to elevate yourself.
[/b][/quote]
Are you trying to tell me the majority of America doesn't support Bush? Are you telling me America likes Kerrys voting record? Are you telling me the Democrats think they are winning?

Who cares? What does that have to do with anything?

Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? [/b][/quote]
All i was looking for was a yes or a no.