FMIC Piping costs
 

Ok so tomarrow i get my FMIC installed. Im not sure if im getting ripped off or not but maybe someone could tell me how much shops usually charge. Im getting charged around 6-700 for custom piping and install of the FMIC. Granted this was a over the phone quote without looking at the car. So he doesnt know where the pipes will go. I told him abuot the Short route but i dont think he really understood how little piping was needed.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Yeah thats alot. But if they are not experienced with that sort of car then I am sure 90% of that cost is labor. Mounting the FMIC and getting it looking good can take some messing around. If I were you, I would try to mount the FMIC before you take it there then just have him fabricate the piping for you.

CRAIG

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

If you are talking polished SS piping, that isn't too bad (polishing adds $100). It is a little more than I charge. If you are talking mild steel piping, then it is really high. Hopefully they are using T-bolts and nice silicone couplers too.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

its using a Very High Grade aluminum thats really thin but really strong, all mandrel bent.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

LOL, that's funny! No aluminum is very strong when it is thin. You don't really want aluminum either, it will conduct heat from the engine bay warming up your air. We have had this discussion before on here. It won't be a huge amount, but some.

So are they using a ton of couplers or are they going to TIG weld your piping? More couplers = more places to leak.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Yea that is alot for IC piping, especially aluminum? Who would use thin aluminum that can heat soak very fast when it near the hot engine? I would get a quote for SS. Or just buy a nice kit from somewhere and install it yourself. You can buy a whole IC kit for like 800 bucks at most internet DSM shops.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

I would and did. Hmm, I wonder what most sheetmetal intakes are made out of...

Aluminum piping costs a lot more and requires longer to weld, so that isn't too bad of a price. Considering the time it takes to custom mount the FMIC; piping, coupler, and clamp costs; and then the time to make the pipes.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Yea intakes are a whole different story than piping... Piping will absorb more heat because of the larger area of tubing versus just an intake manifold. Especially if you use a phenolic spacer between the manifold to cool things down. I was mainly talking about having aluminum piping near the exhaust. I guess it depends in where you are routing the tubing. I know intakes and IC are made out of aluminum but having super thin (but strong?) piping will heat up pretty quick, compared to other materials.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

It will also dissipate the heat quicker as well. So I guess SS or aluminized or mild steel piping does not absorb heat? Hmm, that is interesting. And a phenolic spacer... good boost leak.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

I would've gotten aluminum if I could've afforded it.

But then again, who in their right mind would use aluminum?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...va17/Brent.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...etglowhuge.jpg

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Yeah, I see Alum Radiators ;)

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Sorry guys, but I am going to have to disagree. Where do you think the heat is dissipating too? Maybe the coolest area around, which would be the air inside the IC pipe? Those all out drag cars the IC pipes are not near the exhaust, like on a DSM and weight is most important on them. A 3000 lb DSM, saving 15 lbs on IC piping isn't going to do squat.

I do agree that there are good and bad points to both sides. The SS is heavier but the Al heat soaks more. Which is better? It is probably pretty damn close between the 2. Very thin SS is probably the best for a DSM.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Thank you, Tomarrow (today now i guess) ill get a quote with SS piping.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

why dont you call mike. Have someone do it that everyone KNOWS how to do it.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Umm because he is in California.

CRAIG

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

damn, thats no good! well it is.. but its not. My bad!

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

No boost leak on my spacer, even without longer bolts/studs to compensate for the added thickness. Just use an intake mani gasket on each side of it and you are set. The only boost leaks I had were from a shitty EGR blockoff from ebay and not properly sealing the port for the PCV on my intake manifold.

And yes the spacer works, you could tell after about 10 pulls on the dyno when you felt the intake manifold compared to the IC piping and the piping was warmer. Not that anyone was arguing the effectiveness of the spacer.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

I am not going into either side of this argument again, I apparently wasted a ton of time last time all this was brought up trying to straighten out people with their theories messed up. As far as the pics of the alluminum piping on the cars you showed Cher, they don't apply to a street car with all it's underhood sheet metal etc that gets driven more than 1320 feet at a time. Neither of those cars are going to have any kind of underhood temperature to heat soak the pipes, for those cars alluminum is fine especially with that short of piping. Apples to oranges.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

I agree with Jet and Alpine, but there are negatives and postives on both sides like Jet said. Raptor hit the spot.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

BTW, it doesn't cost anymore than SS to get alluminum piping done. It is way easier to work with than SS, if I thought it was smart, I would charge less to do alluminum for labor.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

My point wasn't that the aluminum doesn't heat soak as well, my point was that the SS will heat soak and never cool down, as to where the aluminum would be able to quicker. Like between runs at the track... Phenolic spacer... just wait until it warps.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

And why is the SS not cooling down? Because it is not transfering that heat into the intake air going through the IC piping. If the heat stays in the pipe, it is not going into your nice cool intake air.

Ideally the upper IC pipe should be made of aluminum and wrapped with reflective and thermal insulation. That wouldn't work real great on a street car though. The insulation tends to deteriorate.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Look, I don't realy care what is better... just sharing my thoughts on the topic. I personally have SS and do not plan on changing. But is aluminum probably better? yeah, but not by much.

On the street... nothing will make a difference. At the track, between runs, with your hood open, the heat will balance out with whereever the air is cooler... atmosphere normally...

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

The balancing out is the main point. Depending on how the car is setup and the conditions it runs in, there are two possible scenarios. On one hand the underhood temps are likely higher than the intake charge and on the track only vehicle it would be the opposite. In one case you would want to protect the cooler intake charge from the higher underhood temps so a pipe with better insulating properties is going to be the better choice, in which case SS is correct. In a car prepped for track only with low underhood temps and cool down between runs etc, a pipe with higher conductivity would be appropriate. So in reality, everyone is right in one way or another. As far as once the pipe getting hot and staying hot, it matters less with SS because it will transfer less heat into the intake air for the same reason, less thermal conductivity. if you had two pipes one SS and the other Aluminum, and both physical pipes were the same temp, the air inside will be less effected by the one with less conductivity. Not drastically in either case just for the fact the air is moving quickly.

As far as the phenolic spacer goes, the ones we use are a glass fibre composite, they don't warp but they do need to be sealed properly. Andy's is the only one I know of that ever leaked and it had a problem right away, so likely there was a defect with it. They have been run on many types of cars for many years boosted and NA with no issues. It isn't logical to assume from one bad one that they all will fail.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Phenolic spacer... Yours is not the only one we have seen that has had problems...

And I think we are saying the same thing as far as the piping goes... I just didn't feel like writing that much...

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Well, we all agree then. What Mike wrote agreed with everything I said, he just elaborated on it more.

Another good option would be to use aluminum piping with a thermal coating on it, like Jethot coating or something.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

How much would QPR, Elite or Jet charge to create it and ship it out, otherwise does anyone know of a good place to get it online?

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

I assume that you already bought the core, it would be very difficult to figure out in and out piping if the car is across the country and you make piping here in MN. It would need to be custom and I dont think thats really possible unless you have all specs, dimensions, routing plans, etc...

If you buy a FMIC Kit with piping thats a different story becuase they are already speced fro your car but you would have to install.... Like SLS makes a 2G kit for 700- all piping couplers FMIC, etc..

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

You're pretty much getting F**#ed with that price. Check out the link below. This is my old '97 GST that recently sold. My brother and i did all the custom piping. I think i might have about $80 into it and that's including clamps, hose couplers, etc.


http://mis15437.tripod.com/griffin_20x10.htm

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Clean piping work...nice job.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Thanks. I appreciate it. It's a Griffin I/C. It's very efficient. My 99 GSX came with a 2-178 intercooler and i called Mike at RRE to ask him which he thought was better of the two and he told me to actually sell the Spearco. My brother is an awesome TIG welder. I cut the piping to how i wanted it and he welded it. I think i had roughly $600 into the whole thing and that included everything, i/c, piping, clamps, couplers, etc.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Where did you get your piping from? Did you weld it yourself?

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

At the time i got the bends from RRE. They're like $12-15 each. I used all 90degree bends. The nice shiny straight piece on top is some stainliess we had laying around. I just polished it. My brother welded some small beads around the tips of the pipes to help keep the hose flying off at high boost. My brother did all the welding. He works for my dad in which he owns a machine shop.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

I am willing to bet there is a lot more than $80 into it. You said you used 20 clamps, if they are all T-bolts you have over $60 just in clamps. Add $60 for the bends, $20 for couplers and you are around $150 if you have a buddy weld them up for free. Those are low figures too and assume you hook it up to your existing IC piping like RRE does.

Re: FMIC Piping costs
 

Clamps are just the cheap radiator clamps. They were like 80 cents a piece. Coupling was like $12 per foot. I know i didn't have much more than a foot into it, maybe 14" total if that. The mandrel bends were around $12-13 a piece. The straight pipe on top would probably be around $20 or so. It was scrap, i just polished it up. Ok, so maybe i had a little bit over a hundred into it. Point is, it was cheap. If you have access to a saw, TIG welder, go for it.