Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

http://www.kneedragger.net/DSM.wmv
Got that on 3si.org.
I'd post it in tech, but there is more wrong with the assembly than right.
I got a good laugh out of it, hopefully others will as well.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I actually found it quite educational rather than funny. I think its a great video. I'm thinking about upgrading to aftermarket rods and doing a ring job this winter.

Thanks for the link.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

So for someone like me who does not know what would be the proper way, can you tell me what was wrong with it? :)

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Yes, please tell us what the guy is messing up on.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I counted 5 mistakes just looking through it quickly. Not too bad overall though. Definitely quicker than I do it. It takes me two hours just to file the rings properly and put the pistons in.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I'll give ya one freebie. He's rebuilding a 7-bolt. :D


Steve

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

the stupid girdle or whatever its called!

-E

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

-Clicker wrenches on critical points, no no.
-No assembly lube in the cylinders, means a dry ring install, no no.
-It has a full main girdle, means its a 7 bolt, again a no no ;).
-I did not see any evidence of the following means of checking used:
-Mic'ing crank, plastigauge, rod stretch gauges, anything at all for measurements of clearances?!?
^ I am hoping they missed that part for video purposes.
-Beating the pistons in with the bottom of a wooden mallet is cute, especially when not holding the napa piston ring compressor, great way to f* up a ring.
-It would be nice if he used rubber/latex gloves when touching bearing material, fingerprints can create hot spots/marks/faster wear areas.
-I really hope the block was line honed and those are new style arp main bolts...
-Again on the crank install, it doesn't appear they the seat the bearings or the thrust bearing, you see they have a dial indicator on the end of the crank, so I am assuming they did this.
-He tightens the main girdle/cap down wrong. With the flywheel side of the crank at your belly (the position he is in) he is supose to do the center 2 first, starting at the 'top (towards the car)' of the motor. Thats 1, below it is 2, then the next one would be the next set of bolts to the left (next set away from him) and away from the car, then towards the car, THEN come back to you for 5 (towards the car) then below that is 6..Then finally 7 which is timing belt side, away from car, then 8, above it, then 9 is towards car..flywheel end, then 10.
He is using arp's, so they are to a torque spec, not a degree.
-That type of ring filer is very hard to get a "square" edge on. I've used them, they suck.
-I saw lube put on the rod bolts, but nothing on the main's ...maybe something they didn't video.
-head was torqued on in one stage it appears. Again, wrong. Also, no arp lube looked like it was applied to nut/washer.
-Cams were put in dry..ouch.
-that motor mount has a torque spec for a reason...
-Then just some small stuff, like I usually put the front case on before the water pump/mount. Not saying thats wrong, just 'different'.
-It didn't show him prep for the balance shaft elim (like plug oiling holes/spin bearing)..etc.
-a few dozen more things im to lazy to list.
I don't know, I don't have all the time today to list WHAT isn't shown, but it is a good video in this sence:
1) The music is cool.
2) It does show a general "how to", I just hope people don't take it as a verbadem example of how to build a motor.
3) The overall idea is very cool.

I posted it so a few of the engine builders could get a kick out of it. Great idea, and they are brave to do it on video in such conditions. (dirty garage, etc).
I won't even go into what we do differently, but for a garage build, the methods used aren't that bad I guess, all things consitered.
edit*
Oh, that was my first time through it, I just watched it again to somewhat list them in cronological order.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

DAM!!!! Somebody has built a few motors in their day.. :)

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

1 or 2.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I think it's something more along the lines of he worked with someone that was a freak about building motors. Granted, I think that's part of his job now, but I doubt he's built 100's of motors or anywhere close.

Alot of the points he showed was common sense things. That and he was rebuilding a 7 bolt, no point - waste of time. With those 2 problems, that was most of his errors on the assembly.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Yeah most of the points were proabably performed and just not covered to save on video time. You could tell it wasn't a straight build. It was done in several segments as you could see that various things in the background moved throughout the video. It was still interesting though. I've done a complete rebuild on my head. Never have done a short block rebuild, on a 4g63 anyways.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Oh he put together his fair share at QPR. Mike did the quality control and specs verifying, but Josh had his hands in them.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I think LSE Peformance as a "shop" has done 60+....longblocks (between the 3 of us).
Mike was more quality control,(QPR) as Allan mentioned. I did do my fair share of motor work with QPR.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

-It would be nice if he used rubber/latex gloves when touching bearing material, fingerprints can create hot spots/marks/faster wear areas.

You've been hanging around Raptor too long. When you're putting assembly lube on bearing surfaces, fingerprints don't mean squat. That sounds like one of those lines he'd snowball the newbies with. :rolleyes: :D

Steve

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

LOL! ;).
I just hate getting my hands dirty, I like using the gloves when im working with bearings. LOL ;).

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

If you watch NHRA racing on ESPN2, or just plain been to a big event. You'll see that just about all them guys use latex gloves.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

A reason for that is because the graphites and some of the other ingredients are known cancer causing substances. When working with assembly lubes, moly lubes, etc. it is best to wear your latex gloves. Just an FYI.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Just one more reason to love OSHA. :D

Steve

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I hate to break this to ya, but maybe you should've considered a career as a dental hygenist or something. :D:D

Steve

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

^^^ Good tidbit to know, I've never thought about that.

Also, WTF does he spray on the waterpump and front case gaskets? It almost looks like copper spray, but I assume/hope it is just a gasket tack or something. I guess I've had good luck just using the gaskets without goop of any sort.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Naw, I just follow the model of clean hands=clean motor build :).
Peoples mouths? Gross!

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That's the first time I've ever heard of that.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I noticed alot of the same mistakes Josh mentioned, But I agree you've spent to mutch time around Raptor. I think that motor is in for a nice long walk.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Well i got a stock 7bolt in my 99 GSX. Were the problems of crankwalk cleared up toward the end of the 2g years, like 1999? I mean, can you positively make ANY 7 bolt 'walk' if you want? Or is it a hit-miss thing? Example: Is there a chance that i will absolutely never get it in all the life of my car?

Sometimes it just seems like one of those scares that has everyone with a 7 bolt all worked up. I'd just like to know if there is a 100% chance that i will get it.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Like mentioned before on this site, ANY MOTOR can crankwalk, it just seems to happen more often on the 7 bolt (2g) manual transmission 4g63 vehicles.
It could be a percentage thing, a sheer volume of units produced thing, etc..
Honestly, I would leave your motor stock, as the stock 7bolt can handle over 400whp w/o any internal modifications needed, if its a good tune.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

i walked mine (Auto 2g) But it was more likely due to the turbo going out and draining all the oil. Thank god for warrenties.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

who was watching to make sure the crank was not chipped when he pouned those pistons in....

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Josh- yeah it might be a good idea just to leave mine alone and let nature take its course and see what happens. I would still like to maybe upgrade the rods though. I hate going down the track thinking that 'this might be the last time'. However I'm probably right on the border of 400HP. Slowwhite made 456whp out of his but I can't remember what the deal was with his block that it was messed up. Was it crankwalked?

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I don't remember what happened to it. I think it spun bearings?

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

This isn't a sign of walking is it? When i was at the track on Saturday, When i became full staged I would go 100% throttle and Antilag would kick in. Even with the clutch pedal to the wood, I could feel the car wanting to creap forward ever so slightly. -or- is that just a sign that the clutch needs a little adjustment?

Thanks Josh.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

clutch adjustment.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

That's what i was thinking and hoping. I'll have to get a buddy over and press on the clutch while he watches the throw in the slave cyl rod to see if it is maxed out or if there is room to go further. I didn't experience this a week ago when i was at the track. I just noticed it Saturday.

Thanks

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Just try adjusting the nut, you can do it yourself and it only takes a few seconds.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

I heard bartons car was walked to .030. The bearing that went was probably for the crank on the tranny side.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

So what's wrong with the factory installed thrust bearing on the 7-bolt motors? Is it a lack of oil to the bearing or is the surface area of the bearing too small? And why in the hell is this some huge mystery?

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

Yeah- good question. I'd like to know too. Crankwalk has been around for how many years. With all the machining processes available you'd think somebody could come up with a fix or some sort of an aftermarket part. Is it the bearing, the crank or the block casting itself?

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

It is a combination of a lot of things, hence why there is still no real fix. Also with the availability of 6 bolt blocks, most people would rather just swap them in instead of spend more time and money on fixing a 7 bolt.

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

That was one of the mistakes I saw. He's using copper spray on regular composite gaskets without letting it dry a bit. You don't need copper spray on those gaskets anyways.

Steve

Re: Check out this 4g63 rebuild
 

That would depend mostly on setting the thrust bearing alignment, which I don't remember seeing him do. The rest looked alright enough to last for a while.

Steve