Timing Belt installation HELP needed

Onefast99gsx · 04-28-2005

Hi- Ok i got the head on the other night so i'm ready to put the t-belt on. I don't have a timing belt tensioner tool nor access to borrow one. The vfaq shows how to make one but my battery is not held down by a rod like that shown. I'm just putting a brand new t-belt on. Nothing else. The tensioner itself, pulleys, etc.. are what was on there before i tore it apart.

Question: Is there something else i can use to do this like a substitute to the tool? I thought i read snap ring plyers(which i do have), but i can't find the tech article now unless i was dreaming it up or thinking of something else.

Thanks... was hoping to do this tonight.

TheBlizzard · 04-28-2005

If the tensioner is in place you will need something to get it loose so you can align install and align the belt. If there is another way to do with the tensioner in place and not loosened then its news to me. The only other way I can see of doing it is to just take the tensioner off and reset it and then start from stratch. But then you have to reset the tesioner pulley ect. I don't think I would skimp out here and try to "rig" it up, get the right tool or redo the whole thing and make sure its perfect before you move forward. We have that tensioner tool here and its saved our ass numerous times. The one we have is store bought though, I think JET made one out of the battery hold down awhile back though and it worked, maybe he can chime in here too. I would go and talk to him but I am too lazy to go upstairs.

CRAIG

Onefast99gsx · 04-28-2005

Ok, I looked in my factory manual and got more info out of that than the vfaq. I took the auto tensioner off tonight and put it in a vise, slowly compressed it and stuck a small drill bit in it like a gernade. I understand everything the book tells me except for one thing. To find out if it is in spec or not, they say 12mm(+/- 1mm) full extended and 11mm(+/- 1mm) compressed for the little hydraulic rod on the tensioner. It says to apply 22 to 44ft lbs of weight and the rod should move 1mm. Well, when i push on it against a hard surface you ABSOLUETLY CANNOT push that rod in whatsoever by body weight. It takes a vice. My buddy whom is a ASE mechanic said you can't push them in by hand. He said mine should be good because it had good hydraulic force in it. Can someone confirm this?

He's coming over Saturday to help me put this in. I just want a professional to help me.

TheBlizzard · 04-29-2005

You should not be able to push the rod in by hand. When I had to pull mine off once I have to put it in a C-clamp and put the clip back in. And that was on a brand new Mitsu tensioner.

For reference when you get the tensioner pulley set and the belt is all lined up you should be able to put the little key back in the tensioner like it was when it was it was clamped down. I don't think a lot of people do this but Steve Hill showed me this and it seemed to be a good reference point of making sure its right on the nuts. The only think you are going to have to be careful of when reinstalling is getting the tensioner pulley set right. The two little holes on the outside of it will end up and the 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock position roughly when you are finished. There is also a tool for this that will make your life easier. It has two rods that fit in the whole and goes on a wrench, that way you can adjust it to get it perfect.

Good luck.

CRAIG

Onefast99gsx · 04-29-2005

Thanks Craig for your help. It does help me understand. My mechanic friend and I will being doing this tommorow morning. I let you know how it goes.

Onefast99gsx · 04-30-2005

Hi Craig and all else-

My mechanic friend and I installed the t-belt this morning. It went pretty well. I have a couple basic questions that i need everyones blessings on before i get to the point of starting it up.

I used the, put the tensioner in the vise and slowly compressing it and then putting a pin in, method. We aligned all the timing marks, cams, cranshaft, oil pump and then put the belt on. I stayed on the bottom holding the belt and oil sprocket in place while he put it on the cam gears. The book and vfaq state that you use a spanner type tool in the 2 little holes on the tensioner pulling and go counter-clockwise till you get 2.5 ft lbs. We used what we had and just figured roughly 2.5 lbs. He held it in place while i tightened the center bolt of the tensioner pulley to 35 ft lbs. We rotated the engine a couple times and then pulled the pin. The belt has good tension on it, not too tight not too lose. I stuck a tape measure between the two cam gears and i get approx. 1/4"-5/16" of up or down movement in the belt. I believe thats about what it was before i took it all apart.

My question: Will or are the two holes supposed to be at 11 and 1 o'clock EVERY time? I'm not questioning your authority, I'm just trying to get some closure here. My two holes are at roughly 3 and 5 o'clock. We tried and we could not whatsoever get the pulley to go to 11 and 1(not by staying in the 2.5 ft lbs rule anyway). We would of had to of wrenched extremely hard on the belt tighter than a banjo to do so. Is the 3 and 5 o'clock ok? Oh- i also did the drill bit trick to measure the distance between the top of the auto-tensioner and the tensioner arm and it's almost exactly .18, in which the book calls for .15 - .18. If we would have wrenched any more on that pulley to get it to 11 and 1 would have meant the .18 would have increased to an out of spec number. I rotated the crankshaft and after 6 full turns all the timing marks line up perfectly.

Thanks for any help here on this.

TheBlizzard · 04-30-2005

Can you slide the pin back into the tensioner? Check that if you can and let me know, some may disagree with this method but I have read that this is how to tell if you have it right on or not.

CRAIG

Onefast99gsx · 04-30-2005

Yes, i stuck the pin and i felt it go thru. Well, i stuck it the first(outter) hole, then it went into the middle(the actual hydraulic pin) just fine no resistance. I was having difficult catching the back hole mainly just because it was tough to get at. I can try lowering the engine and getting a better angle at it. So if i can catch all 3 hole with little to no resistance, i'm good ya think?

Thanks Craig...

TheBlizzard · 04-30-2005

Yes you should be good to go, rotate the motor over a few times and get it back on TDC and then if the tensioner pin will move in and out freely your fine. I did some more thinking and reading and I can't find anything definitive about the two holes in the tensioner pulley being at any giving point when your done so I am not going to preach it as being the right way. That is how mine ended up but I have a 90 Turbo which might be different, who knows. But the other method I will stand by as a good way of telling if your tension is correct. Its worked for me.

CRAIG

Onefast99gsx · 04-30-2005

Thanks alot Craig. I will do that tonight when i go back home. I'm at our machine shop now. And to all else, i know i might ask alot of questions on here but i guess that's how we all learn. Please be patient with me. If i ask 2 or 3+ times, it's not because i'm doubting your expertise, it's because i'm trying to understand. I'm literally doing as many upgrades as some people may do in 2 to 3 years.

Once again....Thanks!

niterydr · 05-01-2005

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

**1ViciousGSX** · 05-01-2005

I used the pin "in & out" method and it works fine. If I remember correctly that's one of the ways the Mitsu manuals says to check it also.

CDeutsch · 05-01-2005

I haven't found the pin trick in any Mitsu manuals for a DSM, but it's there for a 3S.

According to the manual the standard value for the rod protrusion (on both a 3S and DSM) is 3.8mm-4.5mm (.150-.177 in.). I usually use a drill bit on the dsm to measure this. On the 3S I do the pin trick. When I changed the timing belt a couple weeks ago on the stealth after 70,000 miles I was still able to put the pin in the old tensioner before I removed it. I was pretty happy about that.

Onefast99gsx · 05-01-2005

Update: Last night i attempted to put the pin back in(which in my case is a tiny drill bit). I got thru the 1st and 2nd hole just fine but the 3rd was difficult. The pin must have been out a bit too far to get into the 3rd. I pryed with little force down on the tensioner arm and i was able to get the pin into the 3rd hole. So with that little bit i'm not going to worry about it. I rechecked the gap with a drill bit and i'm on the high side of .180 in. Maybe + .010-.020". With that little bit i just went ahead and bolted the t-belt cover on, put the pulleys on and said "DONE" to that part of the project. The belt is gonna stretch a little after time anyway.

Thanks guys...

...onto finishing the Magnus which is gonna be more of a pain in the ass

Wizard · 05-02-2005

Honestly, I have never seen a DSM timing belt actually stretch. I have changed timing belts that have been on for well over 100k miles and was still able to insert the pin before removing the auto-adjuster. Something to keep in mind is that the eccentric pulley is the actual tensioner. The hydraulic auto-ADJUSTER is only there to maintain constant tension on the belt during load and rpm changes. Sad part is, they eliminated the auto-adjuster on later model Hyundai and Kia motors (Mitsu motor), which is probably which they have so much belt noise and have a fairly high belt failure rate. Which can only mean that Mitsu might have eliminated it also. A failed auto-adjuster is usually followed by skipping teeth during engine shutdown. If you are able to press the auto-adjuster by hand, it is no good.

I have done the pin method for many years and have yet to have a problem. As for a tool, I actually just use a screwdriver and apply leverage against the pulley. Then snug the bolt up when I feel it's there. Then if the pin moves in and out freely, i'm set. But the biggest key to doing the timing belt is always, ALWAYS, turn it by hand first. It is nearly impossible for you to bend valves by hand. But that little starter motor is more than capable of doing it. Hell, it can move your car easily enough.

Wiz

Raptor · 05-02-2005

Sorry, I missed most of this. Is this a six or seven bolt? There is a pretty big difference in the tensioner pulley alignment between the two.

Onefast99gsx · 05-02-2005

Hi guys- it's a 2g 99 GSX. No i can't push the tensioner down back into the cylinder by hand. I'm not even sure my prying on it did anything. It took the full force of the vise to compress it and get the pin in. It may be .010 to maybe .020 out too much. I can get the pin in but i takes a little pushing to do so. For that little bit i just didn't think it was worth redoing. Now that i have the t-belt cover and pulleys back on, I definately don't want take it apart now. All my timing marks line up perfectly. I went around at least 4 times(6times per) and they are fine.

Thanks for the input.

Raptor · 05-02-2005

I am going to post this anyway even though you did get it right accidentally or however, but the wrong tech info was given so I will clarify that. For anyone who is doing a 2G 7 bolt from now on, the tensioner pulley holes do not get lined up at 11 oclock like a 6 bolt. They are different, 3 and 5 is about right. I would guess thats why josh posted both vfaq links, so everyone would realize the difference. I have seen it done wrong a few times, it is possible and probably not a good idea.

Onefast99gsx · 05-02-2005

Thank you Raptor for adding that. That makes me feel alot better. I hate doing a technical project and then wonder if it was done right. It's such a long a tedious project, taking the belts off, motor mount, pulleys, cover, etc.. Some people would probably go around 1 complete time(6 crank revs) and call it a day, but i did it 4 times(24 revs) to make sure the marks were all lining up. Probably over-paranoid but better safe than sorry.

Thanks again for the closure on this.

Raptor · 05-02-2005

Your welcome. You are right too, it is always better safe than sorry.