Car was on E and flashing the gas light leaving my garage, drove about 5 miles and then filled up. I fired it up on the pump gas map then after about 20 seconds switched over to the e85 scaling on the alt-map. Drove around after filling up and dialed in injector scaling, settled on ~850 which still seems way low to me. Stopped by jim's house and we went for a rip. I logged and looked, the car is fine in midrange but lean up top, like high 12's. Gah! Also I smell fuel, alcohol fuel...fuel rail is leaking wtf!? Oh, one of the bolts is loose!???!
Yea, minor freak-out moment, but after closer inspection, I realize what I had sorta thought when eyeballing the new injectors: they are taller than stock. The stock spacers were just free to spin and the whole fuel rail was tweaked leaning forward, sitting cockeyed on the injectors. So I snugged it down for the drive home and then checked my garage for just the right spacer. I believe these are old metal center sections out of a 1G shifter base bushing or something, but they fit great! They're metal though, so I hope it doesn't come loose. Also I hope the rail not being cock-eyed helps flow and helps richen things up. I will report back!
Initial impressions--the car freaking rips on e85! I left boost alone for now, ~26psi across the board, and after initial logging, I added 2° of timing, it just hits 15°*at like 7500 or so, still very very mild but the car just feels smooth and powerful and absolutely no knock.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26
I need to listen to Scheides more often i think :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotalon1g
...I realized that I can't keep up my shit talking without anything to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
S2000: For those of us that know the Miata is the best car on the planet, but also want extra power and to not have to turn in our man cards.
YES! Finally, you have been converted...enjoy the corn The 1680's idle and drive all good? I will for sure need to "borrow" some initial scalings from you
The fun comes a few months from now when you realize that you haven't given a thought to what fuel from where, knock, different "pump gas" tunes and boost settings because that shit just doesn't matter. The car is always set to "kill" for the summer and you never missed an opportunity or worried about pesky things like knock or bad gas. The biggest worry will be "Where is the nearest E85 Station?" which sadly you will memorize about 30 of them before year end and you also start to wonder if the MIL light is broken since it never ever flashes again.
Car felt good, can't wait to see that thing run 30+psi and more timing. 475+hp anyone?
Last edited by TalonFiero; 05-18-2011 at 12:11 AM..
Thanks man! You've been pushing the stuff for years and while I ran I for a while on my 8 it was through winter and always a pita just due to circumstance. I hope it stays convenient for me because as of now it seems way way worth it!
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Originally Posted by cmspaz
NICE!
I was off at 4, and my phone was not rung for this. I R SAD SPAZ
Sorry man, this was literally a fuel stop for me, iv been planning for a while and done it so many times with others, the process was easy. Off work at 6, dinner, fill up, drop off stuff at jim's (I've had a few of his tools since last fall!),around the block and then back home. There will bs plenty of tuning and other fun time, don't worry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26
YES! Finally, you have been converted...enjoy the corn The 1680's idle and drive all good? I will for sure need to "borrow" some initial scalings from you
No prob. So far it's been dead easy, the X is really really easy to tune and a lot of base values are already out there. I'll certainly be posting mine once I'm done.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26
I need to listen to Scheides more often i think :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotalon1g
...I realized that I can't keep up my shit talking without anything to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
S2000: For those of us that know the Miata is the best car on the planet, but also want extra power and to not have to turn in our man cards.
Does that mean I won't get banned anymore for suggesting E85?
Muahaha, unless I say 'it's not an option' first! But now it is
I had to re-seat one of my injector clips (the adapter part) this am, it was loose and the car was missing when I pulled out of the garage.
Having a weird fuel curve problem, the car just wants to go way rich then steadily lean out as the run progresses. This happens if I start at 4000 or 5500rpm, dips to 10 then leans out to around 12.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26
I need to listen to Scheides more often i think :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotalon1g
...I realized that I can't keep up my shit talking without anything to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
S2000: For those of us that know the Miata is the best car on the planet, but also want extra power and to not have to turn in our man cards.
I believe it is based on load which would probably explain it, but the thing is my old injectors on pump gas never did this; these must be so big they are letting a lot through....leaning it out via the fuel map shouldn't be a problem but it goes *so* rich that it's just odd to me, coupled with the fact that it steadily leans out from there even though the fuel map seems to be pretty flat up top.
It's issues like these that make me glad I have a good logging setup including wideband so I can try and troubleshoot issues before I hit the dyno with shane.
I think I will tweak the fuel map slightly and see if it helps, then probably up the boost and make sure fueling remains consistent; I sure hope this DW pump lives up to the hype--I don't have any money budgeted for a BAP.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26
I need to listen to Scheides more often i think :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotalon1g
...I realized that I can't keep up my shit talking without anything to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
S2000: For those of us that know the Miata is the best car on the planet, but also want extra power and to not have to turn in our man cards.
Time for an update I suppose. Shane @ DB Performance, thank you! Basically I have hit an unexpected wall on my fuel system and shane has help me make the most out of it with a little bit of advice and me doing some street tuning.
Let me back up a bit. First off, why the fuk am I out of fuel on this build? I have FIC1680cc injectors and the new DeatschWerks 300-series fuel pump that should outflow a walbro any day of the week. Simple fact is that my fuel pump just doesn't seem to be keeping up. I've researched high and low (thank you EVERYONE that offered advice! LOMKER! diiirk@AWDmotorsports, Murlo, Chris@MAP, Chris@DW to name a few in addition to Shane@DB) and pretty much determined that despite the testing DW did on this pump, for whatever reason, on the X it is not keeping up utilizing the stock wiring.
I did a lot of street tuning and anytime boost is over 26psi at 8000rpm I see 13:1 AFR. Timing and afr in the rest of the map are mostly untouched from the pump gas tune in this log:
So, I have two options, both involve getting more voltage to the fuel pump. One, a hardware kit for teh fuel pump. This will run it at closer to 14v but *all* the time, no dual-voltage setup like stock so the stock FPR will be over-run at idle. Boo! With an aftermarket FPR kit I'll be in good shape for my setup I think. Gah, more parts wtf!?! Well Chris Carey at MAP is running this setup on his X with great luck so it is a viable option and not terribly expensive.
Side note #1: what is really the difference between the X and the 8/9 causing me (and others) to see this limit earlier than expected? I'm not sure, but there are two pieces that jump out at me. One is the stock hardline that runs along the side of the valvecover. The feed line on the 8/9 is IMHO bigger and might flow more. I'm tempted to try and find out somehow but this would be an expensive test. Next, the fuel feed line in the tank. I know others use it but I'm thinking of getting rid of this snake and replacing it with some 30w10 or whatever the hell special (uncrinkled) fuel line is: http://www.scheides.com/gallery/evoX/dw300_4
Option two, best of both worlds IMHO. No upgrades anywhere else in the fuel system, just overclock the DW300 pump with a boost-a-pump. The street version can run up to 17.5v but I was thinking of getting one and wiring it to run the pump at ~15v for heat/longevity purposes. This setup is about as ideal as I can ask for since it only runs high voltage during boost so no AFPR needed AND I could get MORE out of the system if I ever need it. Muahahah!
Side note #2: while I'm having fuel pump issues I'm also having tons of problems with the FIC 1680's I bought second hand. I want to recommend these injectors to people as they are amazing! They run fine on pump gas and (theoretically) have enough flow to make pretty epic power on e85. The problems I'm having are with the mounting spacers (I got none, and they sent me new ones that didn't fit either) and the OMFGGODDAMNIT injector adapter harnesses. This is what I have been forced to do:
Otherwise the clip comes loose and the car misfires horribly. Regularly. Gah! FIC has done an AMAZING job and I hate to even post this info until after I receive all of the parts they put in the mail yesterday but fuk it, it is testiment to their amazing customer service and top-notch quality. I will post more pics/info when I get them.
Ok back on track, what most people and myself overlook is OPTION 3--TURN DOWN THE BOOST! Wait wut? I know, its insane, but the car is already feeling amazing on e85...for now I simply have turned down WGDC to zero across the board on my hybrid boost control setup and am basically running just a MBC. I turned up the boost on the MBC and let the thing taper to ~25psi at 8000rpm, just barely within the limits of the fuel system as it sits. It sucks, but hey, make the most of it!
This is where Shane came in, he has helped me dial this thing in...it is still pretty damn conservative, only 17° of timing up top and 9° during boost onset but it is damn consistent now (for the past week timing would jump all over the place under boost) and it mofukin rips! Timing steps up nice and evenly and afr is right around 12:1 all the way across the board. This is two runs back-to-back, obviously I started at different rpms/speeds, thus boost is ever so slightly different way down low:
That is about as good as I am going to expect out of this lil beaterX for now. Whenever I get some fundage I'll score a BAP and turn it up and hit the dyno, but for now its ALL SMILES as this thing runs fantastic and it is a hoot all over the powerband!
I am just barely at the limit of the fuel system now, before I was pegging 115% IDC waaaay earlier:
One more fun item to add to this um.....long and rambling post--my brother bought me a GoPro HD for my b-day. Definitely turn the quality up to 720 but these things are fantastic. Turns out my neighbor is the local GoPro rep, he saw me fiddling with it and ran over. First a tour of tornado-damaged minneapolis, then some rippin near the end:
BIR is only a few weeks away, hoping to get fuel system issues sorted by then....hope everyone else is working on making their car fast as much as I have been!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlo26
I need to listen to Scheides more often i think :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotalon1g
...I realized that I can't keep up my shit talking without anything to back it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JV
S2000: For those of us that know the Miata is the best car on the planet, but also want extra power and to not have to turn in our man cards.
The car is always set to "kill" for the summer and you never missed an opportunity or worried about pesky things like knock or bad gas. The biggest worry will be "Where is the nearest E85 Station?" which sadly you will memorize about 30 of them before year end and you also start to wonder if the MIL light is broken since it never ever flashes again. 
Sonic Champion!
Hybrid Mode
