T3 vs. Mitsu housing

[turbotalon1g]

Can anyone explain the differences/ pros vs. cons of these?
i am looking at turbo's about 50 trim sized and I have the opportunity to go T3 instead of bolt on, just wondering if i should.
To me if i have the same turbo, by going T3 I would lose spool but gain topend.

[scheides]

Two primary differences. One, you'll have to go to an aftermarket manifold. This will usually be a tubular-style setup, cost a lot, possibly crack over time, and more specifically yield more top-end power and sacrifice a bit of bottom-end.

The T3 hotsides you'd go with either a .63 or .86. Smaller = better spool, less top end, and vice versa. On a 50-trim on a 2.0, the smaller hotside will likely be ideal.

The bolt-on hotides are usually small-ish to somewhere in between, comparable to a .74 or so.

[turbotalon1g]

To be exact, I am looking at an HX35 in either a bolt-on .55 a/r or T3 .70 a/r.
Spool in bolt-on is said to be comparable to E316G but top end has been reported 50lb/min+, a friend of mine is seeing 49 lb/min @26psi.

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

To be exact, I am looking at an HX35 in either a bolt-on .55 a/r or T3 .70 a/r.
Spool in bolt-on is said to be comparable to E316G but top end has been reported 50lb/min+, a friend of mine is seeing 49 lb/min @26psi.

Looks like a HX35 compressor wheel or whatever flows 55-60 lbs a minute is what the general info after googling says. Thats more than that evo16g will flow but I highly doubt it will spool as fast. You know there will always be a trade off for spool vs. more flow... right?

If you hated the sc61 or whatever you had, you'll probably hate the HX35 too.

[turbotalon1g]

Yes I understand that, I guess what I am trying to do here is gain more top end, but not so much lag that comes with it.
I can say that there are times when I miss the 61.
That is why I am going for this, its along the lines of a 50 trim, which I think I will be happy with on the scm61 I had 20psi by 4200rpm.
I guess I would like this a bit earlier maybe late 3000s (3500-3900).
The bolton housing on a HX35 has dyno'd 500whp on a few cars. (yes we all know dynos are diff, but I have a baseline of this setup and want to improve a bit)

[Shane@DBPerformance]

A/R is just a ratio like trim, they don't mean a whole lot unless you are comparing to other housing in the same family. A .64 A/R T25 housing is tiny compared to a T3 .63 A/R. A T3 .82 A/R probably falls into line some where between a .58 and .68 T4 exhaust housing for spoolup/power. The PTE Mitsu .63 A/Rs are a tad bit smaller than the PTE T3 .63A/R. A Garrett GT42R 1.01 A/R divided T4 housing sounds huge, but it's really comparable to a T4 .68 undivided.

Spoolup can often more come down to cams, exhaust manifold design(huge), intake manifold, boost leaks, ignition timing, etc. The worst looking pile of shit true log manifold will usually spool a turbo the quickest, but have a big performance hit in the upper RPMs. Long runner fancy top mount manifolds no matter how perfectly they are design are usually laggy, which is fine if you need to make power from 8000-10000 RPMs.

I did one car with 3 different kinds of exhaust manifolds on the same turbo and saw 1000+ RPM spoolup difference from the worst to the best. eBay manifold spooled ok, but power was blah. Tried a fancy top mount, gained about 40hp, but 500 more rpms of lag. Tried a short runner tubular and made the same power as the top mount but spooled 1000 rpms quicker than the top mount and 500 quicker than the eBay.

I haven't had any BW or Holset turbos on the dyno that really blew me away as spooling way faster or making huge amounts more power. Some of those turbos are quite good, but not anything magic. The huge BWs(S372 and bigger) do spool pretty good for their size, but we aren't talking worlds different than others. It's hard to compare different cars, dynos, setups, etc over the internet to each other. The FP setups are usually noticably quicker spooling than comparable Garrett setups, but a lot of people use the FP exhaust manifold with them too.

[turbotalon1g]

^Thanks man. You've been a lot of help with a lot of questions.

Well I am thinking about keeping the FP Mani I have and just getting the bolt-on housing. I think anything I can do to keep spool would be good plus I only log a max on 38 lb/min now so even if I do get to 49 lb/min I will love it.

[Halon]

What about something like a 20G in a 7cm housing? Might be able to find a used one around for a decent price. Should still spool decently, give you a little more top end, bolt up to your mani, just have to figure out a WG setup for it.

[sleepydsm]

I'm gonna sound dumb, the when referenceing the 6cm^2/7cm^2 they are talking about the area of the turbo exhaust housing inlet, correct? Like for example, the stock 14bs are 6cm^2 and cool people use that mitsu gasket and port them to 7cm^2. Or am I retarded.

[asshanson]

You're thinking of the diameter of the turbine housing inlet, 6cm across, not 6cm^2 area.

[sleepydsm]

oops.

[jrohner]

I've been looking into upgrading to a Holset. This is about all I've been reading about online lately. From what I've found, full boost (hx35) is around 3500 rpms and capable of 500awhp all with the DSM bolt-on housing. 52 lbs/min for the hx35, and 2-3 less for the h1c. 60 something for the hx40 (I don't want anything that big so haven't cared about the exact number) -- 650hp so probably 65+ lbs/min and with full boost by low to mid 4 grand. Pretty awesome spool vs hp I would say. I'm probably throwing an h1c on my car.

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Originally Posted by jrohner

From what I've found, full boost (hx35) is around 3500 rpms and capable of 500awhp all with the DSM bolt-on housing.

How much "full boost" at 3500? Maybe 20 psi on a 2.4L and a HX35, but I highly doubt 30 psi by 3500 on a typical 2.0L or any boost level that would make 500awhp. I'd like to see these dyno charts. I think the honda-tech disease is spreading to the dsm world. (I made 600whp on my gt35r and 10 psi and full boost by 2000rpms!)

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by At-Least-It's-An-Evo

How much "full boost" at 3500? Maybe 20 psi on a 2.4L and a HX35, but I highly doubt 30 psi by 3500 on a typical 2.0L or any boost level that would make 500awhp. I'd like to see these dyno charts. I think the honda-tech disease is spreading to the dsm world. (I made 600whp on my gt35r and 10 psi and full boost by 2000rpms!)

Then go look for them if you actually care. Look up something before you go slamming it.

If you run a bigger t3 housing it will take over 4 grand to spool on a 2.0. People have said the hx35 starts making boost sooner than a 16g so it's not quite as hard of a hit. It would be lame if it took a 2.4 to build boost by 3500, that would probably be worse than a 50 trim not better.

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Originally Posted by jrohner

Then go look for them if you actually care. Look up something before you go slamming it.

Nope, I don't care. Nor do I care for a HX35 or the bullseye housing for it. It's too small of a turbo anyways.

Saying it gets "full boost" and putting that it makes 500whp in the same sentence makes it sound like if you are gonna run the 30 psi it'll take to make that power, that it'd make it by 3500 is all I'm saying, and we know that's probably not the case like how Honda-tech'ers always forget to say that their boost crept up to 15 psi to make that 500whp.

If you have the opportunity/finances Aaron, get a T3 housing unless you're gonna get some FP housing. Just my opinion.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by At-Least-It's-An-Evo

Nope, I don't care. Nor do I care for a HX35 or it's bullseye housing. It's too small anyways.

...and we know that's probably not the case...

Posting about something you don't care about and don't know about. Always a good combination.

So you're speaking for everyone now. OK.

The poster is interested in the HX35 and 50 trims, yet you're saying an HX35 is too small? For who? This thread was started by "turbotalon1g", why don't you keep it about what he wants. My 16G broke 400 hp so how is a turbo that's rated for 12 lbs/min higher too small?

[At-Least-It's-An-Evo]

Originally Posted by jrohner

Don't post if you don't care and don't know. Read about it so you know what you are talking about. You sound like one who has a huge turbo and doesn't break 400 hp.

So you're speaking for everyone now. OK.

Don't know? Yep, that's just it. All I can say is welcome to 5 years ago.

[JET]

Originally Posted by jrohner

Posting about something you don't care about and don't know about. Always a good combination.

So you're speaking for everyone now. OK.

Well, he made over 600 whp on his DSM. You are the one that made the statement, you should have the information to back it up. It sounds like you are talking about boost threshold and not full boost. In your research you must have run across a dyno chart to back that up, just post a link to prove your point.

[jrohner]

Making 600 hp doesn't mean he knows about a turbo he doesn't run. I'd like to see his torque and rpm range.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by JET

Well, he made over 600 whp on his DSM. You are the one that made the statement, you should have the information to back it up. It sounds like you are talking about boost threshold and not full boost. In your research you must have run across a dyno chart to back that up, just post a link to prove your point.

I don't see how you can go by a dyno chart to tell you where full boost is. I make full boost by 2800 on my car, a hair over 3000 in 3rd gear, yet the dyno chart shows it at like 3800 and peak torque at 4200, both on the DD and Dynojet. The load is far different on a dyno than the street where it matters. The main chart I've seen on the HX35 had peak torque at 5 grand and made about 500 hp at about 7 grand at 25psi. It doesn't tell you where it makes full boost on the street, you have to go by what people say -- which is what I'm doing. This other guy is just saying 'I don't care what anyone says it's not possible' basically. Have you had one on your car or ridden with someone to really say it's not possible?

Besides, tune means a lot too, I can change my spool 400 rpms easy just using a different timing map. I was making full boost at 3200 and then I changed my timing and now I'm at 27-2800. It doesn't make a big difference what psi I'm running either, rpm is very close to the same.