Smokin And No Damn Clue Why Yet

**Halon** · 12-09-2003

well all a sudden yesterday, the ol talon decided to start bein a lil :censored: again. Well as of now i really have no idea whats wrong, but ill explain everything i can right now. if its hard to follow, i apologize, but here it goes. OK..

Well i recently put on a used head i got not to long ago. I didn't really get the head tested or anything before i put it on, i just know the car it came off of worked fine. So that was good enough for me for the time being. So i put that head on, and i got my old head refurbished basically and now Napa says my old head is good as new with new seals, and they vacuum tested it and she passed. Well anyway, after we had put on that used head, my compression test results were like 140, 110, 135, 70. BUT the car ran fine, and so i was ok with that because as long as i could get around, i was happy. I don't race the car at all what-so-ever. So i really don't know if its the used head, or the piston rings that is causing the low compression in those 2 cylinders. But my plan was basically to get my other head refurbished (which i already did) and then drop in some 2g pistons/rings at the same time i put that other head back in. so that was the "plan". until yesterday. Now my car is smoking outta the muffler pretty nicely, im gunna take a pic just cuz its pretty insane seeing my car look like it wants to immitate the space shuttle launch. But also, there is oil inside my engine bay. like some lil puddles on top of the tranny. and also u can just smell antifreeze when u open the hood. i think there is some antifreeze kinda leaking too just cuz i can smell it, and there are spots in the engine bay that look wet, and i can't tell if its oil or antifreeze. It's just really annoying right now cuz i can't figure out what the heck is leaking. its only leaking on the passenger side of the engine. and it's not like so wet that id consider it a MAJOR leak, but its still no small leak. and i can't figure out where its coming from. but sumthin has to be leakin internally somewhere to make my exhaust all white. but its also leakin externally from sumwhere cuz u can see stuff in the engine bay. Anyway imma take some pics to show u all what i mean cuz right now it prolly sounds like im insane. But if any of this makes sense to you, then please chime in. I'm wondering if its just that one cylinder with low compression just got way worse and that's what is smoking, or if its the headgasket, or possibly the turbo causing the white smoke. But then i know that my compression test results will be wierd cuz they were just a couple weeks ago, but i also have had the turbo be the cause of horrible smoke 2 times. So i don't wanna count that out. This is just going to be an annoying problem, i can tell already. I'll keep everyone updated on what i do incase anyone comes across this problem in their future.

**Halon** · 12-09-2003

ok a little update. i did a compression test. kinda suprised by my results but here they are starting from right to left. 175-170-165-170. so im going to say that rules out pistons, rings, and headgasket. i then decided to do what i could to see if it's the turbo. I took off the j-pipe, and found no sign of oil or anything. i decided just to go ahead and check where the uic pipe connects to the tb elbow, and once again, nothing. I then went to the turbo and took off the intake to check for shaft play. There was a little bit of shaft play, but not a whole lot. Then i sat there and just kinda spun the compressor wheel. when i spun it by like putting my fingers on the fins and spinning, it spun fine. but when i tried to spin it by grabbing the lil shaft and spinning it, it would get a little stuck sumtimes and it would take more force to get it to spin past that stuck point. So that has me thinking possibly a bad turbo is causing the white smoke. But then i didn't find oil or coolant or anything in the intercooler piping. Could it by chance be a seal on just on the exhaust side that is leaking and smoking, and its not getting in the intake cuz its just on the exhaust side? if u know of any other checks that im not doing that u think i should do then please lemme know. Basically right now im stuck, im thinking turbo, i honestly don't know what else to check. i dunno what exactly was leaking out before that i had seen in the engine bay. i cleaned all that off and it hasn't come back. so i guess im mainly dealing with this white smoke. i still dunno if this smoke is WHITE(coolant), or if its white with a blue tint(oil).

At-Least-It's-An-Evo · 12-09-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by me612@Dec 9 2003, 05:27 PM
ok a little update.  i did a compression test.  kinda suprised by my results but here they are starting from right to left.  175-170-165-170.  so im going to say that rules out pistons, rings, and headgasket.  i then decided to do what i could to see if it's the turbo.  I took off the j-pipe, and found no sign of oil or anything.  i decided just to go ahead and check where the uic pipe connects to the tb elbow, and once again, nothing.  I then went to the turbo and took off the intake to check for shaft play.  There was a little bit of shaft play, but not a whole lot.  Then i sat there and just kinda spun the compressor wheel.  when i spun it by like putting my fingers on the fins and spinning, it spun fine.  but when i tried to spin it by grabbing the lil shaft and spinning it, it would get a little stuck sumtimes and it would take more force to get it to spin past that stuck point.  So that has me thinking possibly a bad turbo is causing the white smoke.  But then i didn't find oil or coolant or anything in the intercooler piping.  Could it by chance be a seal on just on the exhaust side that is leaking and smoking, and its not getting in the intake cuz its just on the exhaust side?  if u know of any other checks that im not doing that u think i should do then please lemme know.  Basically right now im stuck, im thinking turbo, i honestly don't know what else to check.  i dunno what exactly was leaking out before that i had seen in the engine bay.  i cleaned all that off and it hasn't come back.  so i guess im mainly dealing with this white smoke.  i still dunno if this smoke is WHITE(coolant), or if its white with a blue tint(oil).

Do you have aftermarket higher compression pistons? Those numbers are not right if not. 164 was factory spec. Either you have great carbon buildup compression or you didn't do something right.

Iceman · 12-10-2003

Well he tossed in 2g piston so hes comprssion should be 178 right? Personally i think the turbo is laking oil like you said... Which in my opion would lead it to smoke i belive usally blue tint to it though.... Could also be your valvues..

slowbubblecar · 12-10-2003

I was thinking he already had a 2g from when he said he took off the j pipe, but it also sounds like he might have a 1g because he said something like putting in 2g pistons. If it is a 1g, you have a lot of carbon build up. You would probably want to use mccc on your car to get rid of some. How bad is the smoke. Even new cars have some white smoke in the winter?

john · 12-10-2003

Did you toss in the pistons yet or not? It could be a head gasket. You would be loosing oil and coolant. You replaced it when you swapped the heads right? White smoke from exhaust (assuming its not condensation) would be coolant.

Iceman · 12-10-2003

I belive hes got a 1g with 2g psitons and rings...

**Halon** · 12-10-2003

hey sorry for the confusion. i have a damn near stock 1g. i was PLANNING on throwing in 2g pistons, but haven't got to it yet, still got 1g pistons in there. I guess i know the pistons had some build up on em when i swapped heads, but i didn't think that much. Could it be possible that the head i put in was shaved a few too many times? could it just be build up? Once i get some time, ill do the MCCC cleaning and see if i get some different numbers. But i still can't tell u if the smoke is white or white with a blue tint. I honestly cant tell the difference unless maybe i seen them both side by side. but if it was the head gasket, wouldn't i be getting bad compression sumwhere? this problem is kinda annoying. Cuz i don't wanna buy a whole new turbo and manifold and O2 housing and ss feedlines and whatever else i decide to get along with the turbo if its not even gunna fix the problem. Cuz i still got christmas presents to buy! anywho anyone know any other checks i could do or anything cuz im kinda stuck on where to go here. thanx

Jakey · 12-10-2003

Have you had anybody look at the car besides yourself, maybe you're overlooking something?

**Halon** · 12-10-2003

ya me and my buddies have looked at it. I got a couple other guys around here that know more than me, imma have them come take a look if they get some time, prolly this weekend. I don't see how i coulda did the compression test wrong, its not that hard of a thing to do.

niterydr · 12-11-2003

Quote:

Originally posted by me612@Dec 10 2003, 07:34 PM
hey sorry for the confusion. i have a damn near stock 1g. i was PLANNING on throwing in 2g pistons, but haven't got to it yet, still got 1g pistons in there. I guess i know the pistons had some build up on em when i swapped heads, but i didn't think that much. Could it be possible that the head i put in was shaved a few too many times? could it just be build up? Once i get some time, ill do the MCCC cleaning and see if i get some different numbers. But i still can't tell u if the smoke is white or white with a blue tint. I honestly cant tell the difference unless maybe i seen them both side by side. but if it was the head gasket, wouldn't i be getting bad compression sumwhere? this problem is kinda annoying. Cuz i don't wanna buy a whole new turbo and manifold and O2 housing and ss feedlines and whatever else i decide to get along with the turbo if its not even gunna fix the problem. Cuz i still got christmas presents to buy! anywho anyone know any other checks i could do or anything cuz im kinda stuck on where to go here. thanx

clean the cylinders, and make sure your testing correctly. Machine shops should tell you if its out of spec, and even with the head being out of spec height wise, your compression still shouldn't be that high, unless the car is perfect. So cleaning is #1+ making sure your testing correctly.
White smoke indicates cold startup/ coolent in the exhaust stream, most commonly headgasket, sometimes other coolent leaks. Meanwhile bluish smoke is oil, it almost sounds like the turbo took a shit. Check it for end play, if it moves alot, then odds are the center section is toast. What headgasket did you use? Whats weird is the carbon buildup shouldn't be present if napa cleaned the head the way they were suspose to....

**Halon** · 12-11-2003

hahaha, ok it sounds like i confused people a lot here, sorry i guess im not the best at wording things. But the head on the car right now is NOT the one napa cleaned and checked and replaced the seals. that head is sitting here. The head on the car right now is just some used one i got off the trader. I used a stock headgasket i got from a mitsu dealer(not the metal one). I used ARP's torqued at 90. I just talked to one of my buddies, he has a spare 14b he's gunna give me. So imma pop that thing in there and see if it fixes it. If it doesn't then i guess ill go after the headgasket even tho my compression numbers don't say to go there. Plus if i swap in a new headgasket, then it just gives me a chance to throw in my other refurbished head that's sitting here from napa. And ill prolly just sell the used head on the trader or sumthin. well thanx for responces, ill let u know how it turns out. Also i still have no clue what color the smoke is, cuz honestly white or white/blue look pretty much the same to me so i really dunno. but again, thanx.

john · 12-12-2003

Gauges read different numbers and are not always 100% accurate. I would try MCCC first. Follow the vfaq. I did it myself and it helped alot on my phantom knock. Then recheck compression. Make sure your car is really warmed up. Go out and beat it for a few minutes. I did a compression test on my car at elite on the dynofest and got 180-180-170-170. Then I took my car home, beat on it a bit to warm it up. I used a snap on gauge from my work instead of elites and got 160-160-155-150. I wouldn't just start pulling everything apart until you know the problem. Check the coolant and oil levels. That may hint to what the problem is also.

**Halon** · 12-12-2003

the fluid levels are fine. I stopped driving the car ever since it started smoking. i did the compression test after my 15 minute drive home from work. but the car was sitting there for maybe 20-30 minutes after i got back before i did the test. anywho i still plan on doing the mccc cleaning. and dropping in a turbo isn't too tuff so imma just do that too. anywho i gotta go to work. latez