02-28-2009
|
#21
|
aka Goodbye
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
I don't think this is related to E85 at all. We were working on that same problem on a car that didn't use E85.
|
|
|
02-28-2009
|
#22
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
^Care to expand?
I think that it could be from tuning, cause i know the tune on my 1600s wasn't perfect and they were messed up, looked like the tip was melted.
|
|
|
03-03-2009
|
#23
|
It was a auto get over it
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: rochester mn
Drives: something better then you
Posts: 1,987
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
I just pulled my PTE 1000cc injectors and they seem to be perfectly clean, I have been running e85 on the stock lines and dual pumps in the tank.
|
|
|
03-08-2009
|
#24
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
I pulled my sending unit apart the other day and The insulating sock/tube that goes around the pump was all shriveled and brittle.
|
|
|
03-08-2009
|
#25
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duluth, MN
Drives: 1995 talon tsi
Posts: 167
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Blower
I don't think this is related to E85 at all. We were working on that same problem on a car that didn't use E85.
|
GSXTACY had the same problem with his 950's. I wasn't sure what it was but I had thought maybe it was from improper cam timing since it was a 2.4 with 2.4 cam gears. I figured the intake valve was opening too early and exhaust was going past and burning the tips of the injectors.
I have verified on my 2.4 while it was on the stand that neither mitsu cam gears (either 2.0 or 2.4) get fp3 or fp3x cams in correct time. Degreeing the cam is the only "true" correct way to get those cams in correct time with a 2.4 block and belt. I also verified it with FP.
Anyway, he swapped his 950's for 1150's. The car never did run right, poor idle, kinda a "popping" out the exhaust and flowing the wrong amount of air at idle. So he bought adjustable cam gears and I degreed the cams in. Car ran perfectley after and flowed the correct amount of lbs/min.
That was last fall, we never did get to re-tune the car. This spring I'll tell him he should check his injectors.
I am running the older FIC 1600's with 3000 miles on them. I guess I should pull them and check them too.
Just something to think about. I doubt all of these cars that are having this problem have these cams and 2.4. I doubt they have improper cam timing, but again just a thought. Could exhaust be getting past the intake valve?
__________________
Horsepower costs money, how fast can you afford to go?
@BloodSweatMotorwerks
|
|
|
03-08-2009
|
#26
|
Unsure resident asshole
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MN
Drives: '92 Eagle TalonTSI w/many mods
Posts: 3,696
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
its sad, but most people don't even degree their cams..it's just thrown on stock gears, and buttoned up.
-A. Swift
__________________
Black 1GB Mafia #1
744AWHP/526TQ-Shootout mode
639.6AWHP/452TQ-DB's dyno
I wanna go fast.
|
|
|
03-08-2009
|
#27
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
^Because most people buy cams that can be dropped in.
Also I know that it is best to degree cams, but not every setup calls for paying for cam gears that cost as much as the cams.
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#28
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Duluth, MN
Drives: 1995 talon tsi
Posts: 167
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
The problem is, nobody makes a cam for a 2.4 block and 2.4 timing belt. All the dowel postions on the cam are made for 2.0 or 2.3. The car may run, but perfect timing is not possible on a 2.4 with out degreeing.
__________________
Horsepower costs money, how fast can you afford to go?
@BloodSweatMotorwerks
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#29
|
Unsure resident asshole
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MN
Drives: '92 Eagle TalonTSI w/many mods
Posts: 3,696
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
even so aaron, NO cam is PERFECT right ot the box, dropped in. measure them all, and nothing would be on. Some are closer then others, but still..not perfect.
-A. Swift
__________________
Black 1GB Mafia #1
744AWHP/526TQ-Shootout mode
639.6AWHP/452TQ-DB's dyno
I wanna go fast.
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#30
|
immune from paybans
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Des Moines
Drives: poorly
Posts: 4,358
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Back on topic.. on link some guy has been doing chemical analysis on the black goo. Apparently it's nothing related to combustion, he concentrated a gallon of e85, got rid of the ethanol and some other stuff (complicated process I don't understand), and was left with a gooey substance of the same chemical compound. So it's definitely coming from the fuel itself, not lines or anything like that.
They still don't know why it's in the fuel, but they are hypothesizing that it could be molecules that dissolve in gas but with the high ethanol content sometimes break out and build up. People who occasionally run a tank of regular 91 don't seem to have the goop problem anymore.
This was all done in the past couple days so I'm sure more info will be available soon.
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#31
|
Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Yeah I read all that. Interesting stuff. I found the diesel theory interesting. They mentioned since it's not happening to everyone, maybe it's Station related. If you are at a gas station that used an old Diesel tank as there now E85 tank, maybe some of the old diesel junk is partially contaminating the E85. 99% of my E85 I run comes from the Holiday right by my house, and I've never had any issue.
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#32
|
immune from paybans
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Des Moines
Drives: poorly
Posts: 4,358
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
But one guy who gets the e85 from a brand new station is getting the buildup, who knows. I hope they find out exactly where it's coming from.
When I have the head off next week I'll check out my injectors to see if the new BlueMax injectors are getting buildup even though they're e85 "safe".
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#33
|
Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Hmmm... Yeah I hope someone figures it out. I'm far from an expert on chemicals. All I could do was give them my info on my setup, and hope someone smarter then me figures it out. But so far I'm glad I've had no build-up at all.
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#34
|
Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
The chemist over there who seems to be taking a lot of personal interest into this found this article.
http://www.lubrizol.com/press-room/m...onProc2-08.pdf
As of now, sounds like he's leaning towards the build-up being related to specific stations fuel additive packages. Meaning nothing to do with injector brand, type of fuel line, filter, etc. Different companies use different additive packages. So depending on the mix your station uses, may directly effect how much of this build-up you may see.
Just a theory so far, but seems to have some factual basis behind it.
If this really is the cause, apparently the Holiday in Blaine has a decent mix as I've yet to see this issue on my car
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#35
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
I use holiday at blaine too, don't use the one on lexington, i always have problems when I fill there.
Whats the deal with these bluemax injectors?
|
|
|
03-09-2009
|
#36
|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: twin cities
Drives: 1g DSM
Posts: 126
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Just the newer better version of injectors from FIC. Check them out they are on MAPs site for the DSMs and Evos.
|
|
|
03-10-2009
|
#37
|
Pewp Champion
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Blaine
Drives: Teh Bean
Posts: 12,309
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Again, according to his research, it appears this may not be an injector issue at all, but a fuel issue. From what he's presented, it looks like this could happen no matter what injector you are using.
|
|
|
03-10-2009
|
#38
|
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: new brighton
Drives: 04 evo
Posts: 1,212
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
I have only been running e-85 on my injector for a little over a week now, maybe I will take them out in a couple weeks just to see if I have that going on too. I have only been getting my e-85 at the holiday on hwy 96 and 35w
__________________
03 as evo-sold
04 bby ssl-sold
05 ww mr-sold
03 tb evo- current
|
|
|
03-10-2009
|
#39
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Blaine, MN
Drives: '91 Automagic
Posts: 13,908
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundars
Just the newer better version of injectors from FIC. Check them out they are on MAPs site for the DSMs and Evos.
|
Thanks for that. Anyone with any information on these bluemaxs. I know that some are having a fun time dialing them in, i also understand they have a lower "resistance" ( i don't think thats the word i'm looking for)
Anywho, can these big injectors run pump gas easy? I assume so from the low ohmage.
|
|
|
07-28-2009
|
#40
|
Kevin
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Shoreview
Posts: 3,356
|
Re: E85 Injector Issues... Anyone?
Update.
I have FIC Bluemax 1650s. I took them out today, and 3 of four have the black goop on them. I almost 99% of the time get my E85 from the Holiday in Blaine on Lexington/35W, since I've had these injectors. I replaced my stock filter once after running E85 for a month. I've had these injectors on since the early spring ever since I started using E85 (so lets pretend like 7500 miles).
Anyone know a good way to clean this shit off? Or should I have the "professionally" cleaned?
__________________
Misses the Mitsu Community
Currently on Corvette #4
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|