buying an Intercooler

Anduinlight · 12-05-2004

Alrighty,
I'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread but I figured since an intercooler is inline with turbos this would be the best place.
anyways
I've been kinda shopping around for intercoolers, asking some people about thier preference and such (mainly Matt). Matt pointed me in the direction of Dejon Tools, big front mount. I've heard some bad things about the end tanks of thier intercoolers but other then that not much else. My main question is does anybody here have any suggestions about intercoolers as far as who from, what kind, or anyother helpful ideas about them.
and lastly would it be a good idea to have it professionally installed, or how difficult it is to install yourself.
some info about my car:
92 talon AWD, big 16g, safc2, 550 injectors (may be upgrading in the near future) gm maf (i would like to set it up for blow through upper IC piping) and thats about it as far as upgrades go.
any suggestions would be very much apriciated

SuperSleeper · 12-06-2004

Depending on your price range, there are plenty of better options than Dejon. In fact, I would recommend against their ICs...
As far as professionally installed, it's really not that hard. Cut some bumper if necessary, bolt it on, and attach the pipes. However, if you wanted something custom-fabbed that would require professional installation and be really pretty, may I recommend QPR. You could get away with a smaller core to save some $$, assuming you intend to keep that setup.

Anduinlight · 12-06-2004

well i'm thinking of changing the setup over time so I'd like somthing I could build on
I really don't want one of those tiny, almost side mount intercoooler. As far as price range goes dejons is $850 with all the piping, which I could handle, so anywhere around that

**Kracka** · 12-06-2004

Buschur's economy 1G FMIC kit is $900. Nice core, decent end-tanks, black powdercoated pipes. I had basically the same kit but with polished SS pipes and all that was needed to run blow-through was a quick cut of a few inches off the top of the UICP.

**Kracka** · 12-06-2004

One more thing, Dejon makes really nice intake pipes for the money, but I wouldn't run their IC pipes due to the VERY thin flanges, I've seen some that just won't stop leaking.

At-Least-It's-An-Evo · 12-06-2004

Just get a SLS kit. They're pretty much the same as buschur's but with a better price.

carltalon · 12-06-2004

I recomend QPR too they make awsome intercoolers and are usually willing to work around your price range.

Anduinlight · 12-07-2004

so i have one for bushers, one for SLS and on for QPR..... and it seems like no one likes dejon. I did talk to QPR a bit back, they said they could do it, installed for a prety decent price, and I know matt was happy with his install

any other suggestions???

A//// Guy · 12-07-2004

I bought a core on ebay (30X7X3.25) for mighty cheap and had QPR do the piping... Works well, great price but in the end I think I would get a short route SLS or Buschur style FMIC. Custom IC's take a lot of time even though you might save a bit.

SuperSleeper · 12-07-2004

OnGreenPerformance has the cheapest FMIC setup I've seen, and GalantVR4.org members recommend them. $725 for a full setup. You can purchase a 3" GM MAFT piping for an add'l $60. www.ongreenperformance.com

**scheides** · 12-07-2004

QPR is da bomb, but I lust daily for a Buschur FMIC, street or race core.

Raptor · 12-07-2004

Thanks for all the comments from our friends/customers, much appreciated.

For the IC, Most of the differences in costs between the various kits/setups are going to be in the materials and Manufacturing. SS Piping is still going to be the best from a thermal as well as durability and asthetic standpoint, but obviously is the most expensive. Manufacturing methods are going to be the next factor and of course installed or not is another cost variable. If you are just looking for a good inexpensive setup and don't mind doing the install and materials etc are not the big priority, I dont think you can beat SLS. If you want something that is installed and every detail is designed for your specific car, go custom and expect to pay a little more. In the end you may find it is worth it to you. There are going to be advantages and reasons to going either route, but it really depends on what you need. If you just want to go over various considerations and ideas, feel free to come down and we can discuss things in a bit more detail might be able to give you options you may not have considered. Other wise, I would recommend Nic's stuff as far as a kit goes.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-07-2004

Why is SS the best? Doesn't SS hold in heat? Why would you want SS over aluminum? You don't see aluminum in many kits because it costs $$$, but you often see it on race setups.

Pimpin Dsmstyle · 12-07-2004

You have another vote for QPR IC and piping. I came by several days in a short amount of time and basically watched them do a custom IC piping job on a black 2g that will be one of our sites better cars. The welds are absolutely perfect. You cant even really tell that they are there. I would strongly recommend having them get you the IC and do the fabing for the pipes because they do awesome work and will hook you up the best to their capablities for your budget. Goodluck.

**Halon** · 12-07-2004

I guess I've always thought aluminum wouldn't be as good of a choice, because it doesn't insulate as well, maybe letting the engine heat slightly heat up the air inside the piping before it gets to the TB. I guess I wouldn't think it's enough to make some huge difference, but I wouldn't pay more when it works worse. But if I'm wrong, then please correct me.

Raptor · 12-08-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Why is SS the best? Doesn't SS hold in heat? Why would you want SS over aluminum? You don't see aluminum in many kits because it costs $$$, but you often see it on race setups.

If your IC is efficient at cooling the air, you will have more trouble with alluminum heatsoaking off the engine etc. SS works much like shielded piping, keeps the cool air in the pipe and the hot air from heat soaking. SS is more expensive than alluminum typically also which is why you see less of it. Alluminum is much easier to work with but it is inferior to SS or even shielded steel for IC piping.

Raptor · 12-08-2004

Allumnum is not a good insulator, rather it is good at transferring heat, exactly the opposite of what you want in IC piping.

**Kracka** · 12-08-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

Allumnum is not a good insulator, rather it is good at transferring heat, exactly the opposite of what you want in IC piping.

Hence why the cores are made from aluminum. In my mind, you would want aluminum piping from the turbo to the IC to help transfer some of the heat created by the turbo, and SS from the IC to the throttle body to better shield the cooled air from the underhood temps. I suppose to do this properly, intake temps would need to be taken both before and after the core, along with in the engine bay and the intake air at the throttle body. If you have a "cold-air intake" setup on a car, SS piping would also seem to make more sense (although aluminum is far lighter....everything is a trade-off).

Raptor · 12-08-2004

Chris, your thinking isn't far off at all, SS is also better for intake piping. As far as the piping between the compressor and the IC, it should still be SS, reason being that it will also prevent heat soak from the exhaust system in most cases. The other thought is that before the IC, it would be worth while to keep the temp from fluctuating from the compressor outlet as much as possible so the velocity doesn't change and no energy is lost to help fill the IC. If the IC is efficient, it will do it's job and make the air colder and more dense and the better thermal properties of the SS will keep the charge as consitant as possible to the TB. As far as the weight advantage of aluminum, everyone by now knows how much into weight reduction I am, I would never sacrifice better power in the name of weight savings. The difference in weight is not nearly enough to justify the loss of efficiency of the intercooler and piping.

The only other thing I want to say and it isn't to slam anyone or otherwise, just a personal belief that I have and feel pretty strongly about. When Shane mentioned the fact that many racers run alluminum what I have to say about that is this, following the same ideas that faster cars do is smart to some degree but then you are relying on their decisions and logic and it won't allways be right (not that anyones always is). A lot of the things I see even 8 second cars doing isn't always optimum. To find things that work better and be able to run faster, sometimes you have to do your own research and dig into things that maybe they have not considered important and in the end be the leader yourself rather than the follower. Following the typical standards is a good way to hit known performance levels, you have to choose your battles, do the things that are proven 100% for sure, but if you follow the same things everyone does, the bar will never get raised. Someone always has to be pushing for more.

And after saying all that, I will also say Shane is a very smart person and a good leader in this field, No disrespect is intended whatsoever. And I know he does more than his fair share of research into going faster and has a proven setup that speaks for itself, that comment just made me want to put the last thoughts out there to hopefully make people think about progress in our hobby/trade rather than a lot of blind following.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-08-2004

Once that SS piping gets hot and it will, it stays hot. Alum cools down down pretty quick compared to SS. Most of the better cold air intakes for other cars on the market are made from alum instead of steel. The cheap ones are always chromed steel. Do you think the aftermarket intake manifolds should be made of SS instead of alum?