E85 Injector Issues... Anyone? - Page 2

**Goat Blower** · 02-28-2009

I don't think this is related to E85 at all. We were working on that same problem on a car that didn't use E85.

turbotalon1g · 02-28-2009

^Care to expand?

I think that it could be from tuning, cause i know the tune on my 1600s wasn't perfect and they were messed up, looked like the tip was melted.

twack · 03-03-2009

I just pulled my PTE 1000cc injectors and they seem to be perfectly clean, I have been running e85 on the stock lines and dual pumps in the tank.

turbotalon1g · 03-08-2009

I pulled my sending unit apart the other day and The insulating sock/tube that goes around the pump was all shriveled and brittle.

Archertsi · 03-08-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

I don't think this is related to E85 at all. We were working on that same problem on a car that didn't use E85.

GSXTACY had the same problem with his 950's. I wasn't sure what it was but I had thought maybe it was from improper cam timing since it was a 2.4 with 2.4 cam gears. I figured the intake valve was opening too early and exhaust was going past and burning the tips of the injectors.

I have verified on my 2.4 while it was on the stand that neither mitsu cam gears (either 2.0 or 2.4) get fp3 or fp3x cams in correct time. Degreeing the cam is the only "true" correct way to get those cams in correct time with a 2.4 block and belt. I also verified it with FP.

Anyway, he swapped his 950's for 1150's. The car never did run right, poor idle, kinda a "popping" out the exhaust and flowing the wrong amount of air at idle. So he bought adjustable cam gears and I degreed the cams in. Car ran perfectley after and flowed the correct amount of lbs/min.

That was last fall, we never did get to re-tune the car. This spring I'll tell him he should check his injectors.

I am running the older FIC 1600's with 3000 miles on them. I guess I should pull them and check them too.

Just something to think about. I doubt all of these cars that are having this problem have these cams and 2.4. I doubt they have improper cam timing, but again just a thought. Could exhaust be getting past the intake valve?

Swifty1638 · 03-08-2009

its sad, but most people don't even degree their cams..it's just thrown on stock gears, and buttoned up.

-A. Swift

turbotalon1g · 03-08-2009

^Because most people buy cams that can be dropped in.

Also I know that it is best to degree cams, but not every setup calls for paying for cam gears that cost as much as the cams.

Archertsi · 03-09-2009

The problem is, nobody makes a cam for a 2.4 block and 2.4 timing belt. All the dowel postions on the cam are made for 2.0 or 2.3. The car may run, but perfect timing is not possible on a 2.4 with out degreeing.

Swifty1638 · 03-09-2009

even so aaron, NO cam is PERFECT right ot the box, dropped in. measure them all, and nothing would be on. Some are closer then others, but still..not perfect.

-A. Swift

**asshanson** · 03-09-2009

Back on topic.. on link some guy has been doing chemical analysis on the black goo. Apparently it's nothing related to combustion, he concentrated a gallon of e85, got rid of the ethanol and some other stuff (complicated process I don't understand), and was left with a gooey substance of the same chemical compound. So it's definitely coming from the fuel itself, not lines or anything like that.

They still don't know why it's in the fuel, but they are hypothesizing that it could be molecules that dissolve in gas but with the high ethanol content sometimes break out and build up. People who occasionally run a tank of regular 91 don't seem to have the goop problem anymore.

This was all done in the past couple days so I'm sure more info will be available soon.

**Halon** · 03-09-2009

Yeah I read all that. Interesting stuff. I found the diesel theory interesting. They mentioned since it's not happening to everyone, maybe it's Station related. If you are at a gas station that used an old Diesel tank as there now E85 tank, maybe some of the old diesel junk is partially contaminating the E85. 99% of my E85 I run comes from the Holiday right by my house, and I've never had any issue.

**asshanson** · 03-09-2009

But one guy who gets the e85 from a brand new station is getting the buildup, who knows. I hope they find out exactly where it's coming from.

When I have the head off next week I'll check out my injectors to see if the new BlueMax injectors are getting buildup even though they're e85 "safe".

**Halon** · 03-09-2009

Hmmm... Yeah I hope someone figures it out. I'm far from an expert on chemicals. All I could do was give them my info on my setup, and hope someone smarter then me figures it out. But so far I'm glad I've had no build-up at all.

**Halon** · 03-09-2009

The chemist over there who seems to be taking a lot of personal interest into this found this article.

http://www.lubrizol.com/press-room/m...onProc2-08.pdf

As of now, sounds like he's leaning towards the build-up being related to specific stations fuel additive packages. Meaning nothing to do with injector brand, type of fuel line, filter, etc. Different companies use different additive packages. So depending on the mix your station uses, may directly effect how much of this build-up you may see.

Just a theory so far, but seems to have some factual basis behind it.

If this really is the cause, apparently the Holiday in Blaine has a decent mix as I've yet to see this issue on my car

turbotalon1g · 03-09-2009

I use holiday at blaine too, don't use the one on lexington, i always have problems when I fill there.

Whats the deal with these bluemax injectors?

Dundars · 03-09-2009

Just the newer better version of injectors from FIC. Check them out they are on MAPs site for the DSMs and Evos.

**Halon** · 03-10-2009

Again, according to his research, it appears this may not be an injector issue at all, but a fuel issue. From what he's presented, it looks like this could happen no matter what injector you are using.

mike55112 · 03-10-2009

I have only been running e-85 on my injector for a little over a week now, maybe I will take them out in a couple weeks just to see if I have that going on too. I have only been getting my e-85 at the holiday on hwy 96 and 35w

turbotalon1g · 03-10-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dundars

Just the newer better version of injectors from FIC. Check them out they are on MAPs site for the DSMs and Evos.

Thanks for that. Anyone with any information on these bluemaxs. I know that some are having a fun time dialing them in, i also understand they have a lower "resistance" ( i don't think thats the word i'm looking for)

Anywho, can these big injectors run pump gas easy? I assume so from the low ohmage.

sleepydsm · 07-28-2009

Update.

I have FIC Bluemax 1650s. I took them out today, and 3 of four have the black goop on them. I almost 99% of the time get my E85 from the Holiday in Blaine on Lexington/35W, since I've had these injectors. I replaced my stock filter once after running E85 for a month. I've had these injectors on since the early spring ever since I started using E85 (so lets pretend like 7500 miles).

Anyone know a good way to clean this shit off? Or should I have the "professionally" cleaned?