New to E85. Getting a baseline...

[Kevin 1G Drummer]

Haha can you be a little more specific? All their gauges say Innovate on them, and the gauge I have has the red/blue sweeping lights.

[jrohner]

Just go to either innovates site or MAPerformance and you'll see it, oh lazy one.

[FattyBoomBatty]

Hey, he's been around three years longer than you, he deserves to be lazy.

[desolate]

I 2nd, 3rd, the wideband as well. You'll be able to know what's going on. I believe PLX makes widebands that simulate the o2 signal. I have an AEM and it does not simulate an o2 signal.

[CVD]

Alright, so here are my parameters for a wideband, it has to:

1. simulate the factory narrowband O2
2. have a standard size gauge (not a box like the PLX)
3. go in the factory location/bung
4. have a digital readout
5. cheap and easy to install are big pluses.

I'm browsing them, but it's hard to tell which ones meet my requirements.

[Kevin 1G Drummer]

Originally Posted by jrohner

Just go to either innovates site or MAPerformance and you'll see it, oh lazy one.

If you're talking about the gauge I assume you're talking about (since you apparently can't provide a part number), it's the same gauge I have, the XD-16. The only price I've been able to find for that kit is $320 The only kit they have listed for the ~200 you claim, is the LC-1 controller and sensor only, no gauge. The cheapest kit Innovate has with a gauge is either the DB kit (digital only readout) at $230 on Innovate's web site, or the G2 or G3 kit (analog only read out), at $250 according to MAP's website.

Now, back on topic. Installation was very easy with only 3 wires to hook up for the controller (one power, two ground) and one power and one ground for the gauge. I chose to wire up the power for the gauge and the controller together, so there was a total of 3 connections I had to make in the car. Everything else in the kit was plug and play.

I could have put the sensor in the stock location, but I can't get into DSMlink (no laptop) to get the ECU to read the wideband output, and I wasn't sure how to wire it into the ECU. Another thing with putting them in the stock location, is that the sensor has the potential of burning out faster than if it were farther down in the stream, but that's also a debatable issue.

[scheides]

Hrm, I had the PLX M-300 on my 2G with a gauge option, it worked fantastic....only problem is I do not see it on their site anymore...

[scheides]

How about this?

http://www.maperformance.com/innovat...-w-sensor.html

I have the LC-1 on my evo, works great. Some people have problems with the sensors going out, but I have had good luck with mine. I bet if you asked nicely you could get it for a great deal from MAP or one of our other vendors.

Oh, and it does have narrowband emulation setup as well...you can even program it to be whatever AFR you want Default is 14.7 of course.

[4seasons69]

http://www.maperformance.com/plx-dev...5-display.html

this is the plx I have and it meets all your criteria

[Kevin 1G Drummer]

Originally Posted by scheides

How about this?

http://www.maperformance.com/innovat...-w-sensor.html

I have the LC-1 on my evo, works great. Some people have problems with the sensors going out, but I have had good luck with mine. I bet if you asked nicely you could get it for a great deal from MAP or one of our other vendors.

Oh, and it does have narrowband emulation setup as well...you can even program it to be whatever AFR you want Default is 14.7 of course.

The LC-1 uses the same Bosch sensor as most other widebands, so if it ever does burn out it's an easy replacement.

Also, it seems the DB kit is cheaper on the Innovate website.

[FattyBoomBatty]

i've got the plx dm 5 as well (pretty sure on the part number), and you saw the gauge in it. There's a little controller box you can hide. You have to wire switched power and ground, and if you want the latched narrowband output, you have to plug that wire in yourself, but it's easy. And the gauge is normal 52mm and very thin, probably less than a centimeter.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

I don't like the PLX units that much. They read wrong on a lot of cars. The cheap Bosch sensors that most of these systems use nowdays are a failure prone part (As are most Bosch electronics, just look at most german cars). So they fail and the AEM UEGO, Innovate, and NGK AFX boxes throw up an error or stop giving a reading, however, the PLX boxes instead keep "working" but it's a wrong reading. I would rather have it a "Sensor Error" on my screen than a 11.0 A/F reading when it's really 12.0.

I like to use the NTK sensors instead, they cost a bit more though, but they do last a lot longer, especially if you ever run race gas.

Narrowband emulation doesn't always work perfectly, depending on the wideband and the ECU it's used on. If you have a wideband and no real stock O2, you might just want to run in open loop all the time and tune for gas mileage.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by Kevin_1G_Drummer

If you're talking about the gauge I assume you're talking about (since you apparently can't provide a part number), it's the same gauge I have, the XD-16. The only price I've been able to find for that kit is $320 The only kit they have listed for the ~200 you claim, is the LC-1 controller and sensor only, no gauge. The cheapest kit Innovate has with a gauge is either the DB kit (digital only readout) at $230 on Innovate's web site, or the G2 or G3 kit (analog only read out), at $250 according to MAP's website.

Not the spendy xd-16. It's one that hooks up to one of the analog outputs. It's currently 247.99 at MAP. I know I've seen it for like $199 on ebay a while back and MAP told someone on tuners that they'd price match it. My cousin bought it a while back for $220, I believe from Innovate. I think you saw it, but since you want spoon-feeding, the part #'s from MAP are INO-3795 and INO-3796, and just 3795 & 3796 at Innovate. Do you need a link or do you know how to type innovate lc-1 in a search? To me $220 is 'about 200', but it can be found for 'under 200' (which is still 'about 200') with 12 seconds of looking.

It's currently only $196 obo on ebay.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by ecoli

Narrowband emulation doesn't always work perfectly, depending on the wideband and the ECU it's used on. If you have a wideband and no real stock O2, you might just want to run in open loop all the time and tune for gas mileage.

I'm now running open loop, but back when I was leaning out the closed loop with my wideband, I got it to work pretty good but it definitely took some dinging around with the output settings to get it right. The new firmware sucks on the LC-1, it makes the AFR jump everywhere and makes closed loop about impossible to even use. Even in openloop the AFR it shows flies all over the place. My cousins that came with the newer firmware is that way, and mine was when I upgraded the firmware; I've since downgraded mine and it works great again.

[4seasons69]

Originally Posted by ecoli

I don't like the PLX units that much. They read wrong on a lot of cars. The cheap Bosch sensors that most of these systems use nowdays are a failure prone part (As are most Bosch electronics, just look at most german cars). So they fail and the AEM UEGO, Innovate, and NGK AFX boxes throw up an error or stop giving a reading, however, the PLX boxes instead keep "working" but it's a wrong reading. I would rather have it a "Sensor Error" on my screen than a 11.0 A/F reading when it's really 12.0.

I like to use the NTK sensors instead, they cost a bit more though, but they do last a lot longer, especially if you ever run race gas.
.

I never knew that about the plx units I might have to think of switching to a different one

[Kevin 1G Drummer]

Originally Posted by jrohner

Not the spendy xd-16. It's one that hooks up to one of the analog outputs. It's currently 247.99 at MAP. I know I've seen it for like $199 on ebay a while back and MAP told someone on tuners that they'd price match it. My cousin bought it a while back for $220, I believe from Innovate. I think you saw it, but since you want spoon-feeding, the part #'s from MAP are INO-3795 and INO-3796, and just 3795 & 3796 at Innovate. Do you need a link or do you know how to type innovate lc-1 in a search? To me $220 is 'about 200', but it can be found for 'under 200' (which is still 'about 200') with 12 seconds of looking.

It's currently only $196 obo on ebay.

Ok, that's what I was referring to as the DB kit, but your initial description was more than a little vague. I don't normally look on ebay when I buy parts, so I didn't check there. And honestly, it didn't really matter enough to me to spend a bunch of time searching around for the bargain basement price.

[CVD]

I bought the Innovate DB and decided to run it separate from the factory O2. I'll be using the Bosch sensor and upgrade if it burns out. It's not going in the O2 housing and I'm not running race gas so we'll see how long it lasts.

[CVD]

So, the wideband is in. Can someone help me out with what I want to see at idle/cruise/boost?
I'm idling at about 10:1, cruising at 12.5:1, and at WOT it's about 13.0:1 falling to 12.0:1. The car is also a bitch to start.

[Kevin 1G Drummer]

At normal operating temps, my car usually sways back and forth between 14.0 and 15.0 at idle and cruise, and stays right around 11.5 to 11.0 at WOT. When I start it up cold idle and cruise is usually between 12.0 and 12.5 until it warms up and switches to closed loop. Sounds like you're way too rich at idle and cruising, and a little lean at WOT. The rich idle could be part of the problem with the car starting hard.

[FattyBoomBatty]

Yep, on my car, idle is 12.5-13 or thereabouts, it idles fine. Warm up is obviously richer. WOT is 11.5, cruise is 14.5-15.5.

Get it to that point and disable the wastegate.