injector size fuel delivery 35r - Page 2

dsmreck · 03-05-2013

I know i'm hard to get along with here, but I know people killing on 1450cc injectors and even bigger turbos. I would like to here why people say I need 2150, or 1650 or 16g turbos lol. Any math or reasoning besides get these?

Alright shane pick a number and hit me here cause hopefully after the injectors I should about be ready to ask you for a date with the dyno.

Also anyone have any injectors for sale or trade etc?

turbotalon1g · 03-05-2013

Then go 1450s.

dsmreck · 03-05-2013

^ Thanks man thats all I needed to hear you say as your my hero I cant wait to get um. I REALLY appreciate your help most of all.

**4seasons69** · 03-05-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmreck

I know i'm hard to get along with here, but I know people killing on 1450cc injectors and even bigger turbos. I would like to here why people say I need 2150, or 1650 or 16g turbos lol. Any math or reasoning besides get these?

Alright shane pick a number and hit me here cause hopefully after the injectors I should about be ready to ask you for a date with the dyno.

Also anyone have any injectors for sale or trade etc?

The guys giving advice in this thread are basing there advice on their experience with dsms. Scheides, Halon, and Aaron all have been around for a long time and all know what they are talking about. I would recommend listening to them.

I also think you need to go on tuners and start utilizing the search function. Search what setups have done what. There is endless amounts of info on the tuners and is one of the best places to start learning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmreck

^ Thanks man thats all I needed to hear you say as your my hero I cant wait to get um. I REALLY appreciate your help most of all.

I think aaron was more telling you to go with the 1450s because you seem set on them and don't want to take the advice given in this thread. 1650s don't cost much more than the 1450s so I don't see the point in using 1450s with your power goals. But its your car if you're dead set on 1450s go with them

**JET** · 03-05-2013

If you can't afford to go for 1650's instead of 1450's then you have no business owning a 500awhp DSM. It will soon be sitting on blocks or being sold. Do it once and do it right, get the 1650's at the minimum. They likely won't make 600awhp at DB, but like Shane said that turbo won't either.

Why ask for advice in the thread if you aren't going to listen to people with WAY more experience than you?

**goodhart** · 03-05-2013

^^Cause that's what all the new guys wanting 600whp do?

**4seasons69** · 03-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

If you can't afford to go for 1650's instead of 1450's then you have no business owning a 500awhp DSM. It will soon be sitting on blocks or being sold. Do it once and do it right, get the 1650's at the minimum.

I completely agree with this

They likely won't make 600awhp at DB, but like Shane said that turbo won't either.

I will say that it is possible to make 600awhp at db on 1650s but it's not the most ideal way to. And not on a 35r

Why ask for advice in the thread if you aren't going to listen to people with WAY more experience than you?

This is a good question!

**scheides** · 03-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmreck

^ Thanks man thats all I needed to hear you say as your my hero I cant wait to get um. I REALLY appreciate your help most of all.

Lol you know this guy showed up to a dyno day once screaming 'my car is on fire! My car is on fire!!' Right?

Also, to re-iterate JET's point...it's not like guys that have done this before you don't like you or are better than you--they have simply walked the path alteady and know what is technically possible and what won't. Learn from those that have figured it out already and spend your time on some aspect that hasn't been done yet, like good financial planning!

dsmreck · 03-06-2013

Awesome everyone is sucking aaron off here for flaming me and never once gave any real advice, just trying to piss people off cause he a h0m0 online...

I understand I may need to go bigger than 1450, no problem buying 1650, or if I had to 2150, but no one has given any help on why....

dsmreck · 03-06-2013

Someone try to answer the question. What is the math behind turbo and injector or fuel....ANYONE?

turbotalon1g · 03-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodhart

^^Cause that's what all the new guys wanting 600whp do?

Where is that askhole picture that you use? I'd use a kaboom but its not the right time.

**4seasons69** · 03-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmreck

Awesome everyone is sucking aaron off here for flaming me and never once gave any real advice, just trying to piss people off cause he a h0m0 online...

I understand I may need to go bigger than 1450, no problem buying 1650, or if I had to 2150, but no one has given any help on why....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmreck

Someone try to answer the question. What is the math behind turbo and injector or fuel....ANYONE?

Um there is lots of good legitimate real advice in the first page of this thread. There isn't any special equation that says your turbo flows x amount so you need this specific injector for that turbo.
injector size is more determined by the type of fuel you want to run and the amount of power you want to make. If you want to make a certain amount of power on a given fuel you're going to need enough fuel to support that power.

E85 requires more fuel to be used and you want to make some serious power so you are going to need some pretty big injectors. 1450s might be able to support 500whp at db but when 1650s are only $40 more why wouldn't you run them? Especially since 1650s have proven to be able to support that much hp

**goodhart** · 03-06-2013

Guy, you got how many posts of people telling you what to buy, yet you are on here now pissing and moaning about not getting any good advice.

**goodhart** · 03-06-2013

Yep, no good advice in here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

I'd say you'll need FIC 1680's or the 2150's.

You will definitely need either a BAP on your 255 and maybe a second pump or a bigger base pump (like the Walbro 400). This is where you get to spend a lot of time researching other people's setups and then decide what you want to do, then spend money and more time making it work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

For sure twin 255s or the wally 400, I'd do a hi-z 16xx if pump or 2150 if E85.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

^ What he said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4seasons69

Since you're going with e85 I would just go with the 2150's and be done with it.

You will also need a second 255. Not sure if one walbro 400 would support 600 at db probably with a boost-a-pump it would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane@DBPerformance

Might need a bigger turbo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CornFed2.4

They don't make a low impedance 2150. At least that I'm award of. But as Shane said you may need a bigger turbo to hit 600hp at DB even if you max the turbo out. Finding link right now of proven setup as yours is going to be very similar to Brads.

I think he did it with a required 255 and boost a pump but maybe I can text him so he can chime in.

Ninja edit:

http://www.mitsustyle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20970

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4seasons69

If you can't shell out for the 2150's right now you could start with 1650's and see how far you can go on those. The previous owner of my car on a gt4294 made 651awhp at db with 1650's and twin ford gt pumps(ford gt pumps are very similar to the 255). so you can take 1650's pretty far but I would still recommend 2150's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4seasons69

A 2.4l won't change the injectors you need. Just because your turbo is a 65lb/min turbo doesn't mean you are going to need 65lb/min injectors. Injectors are actually usually rated in cc/min or lb/hr. So if you convert 2150s to lb/hr you would have 204.8lb/hr. The size of the injectors is based on the type of fuel you are going to run and the amount of power you are going to make. E85 requires more fuel so you will need bigger injectors.

Like I said you can probably get by with some 1650s but someone can correct me if I'm wrong from my understanding the 2150s are more tuneable. You end up with better idle quality and driveability with 2150's vs 1650s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

With that turbo, 1650's should be enough. I ran an s362 with 1600's and twin 255's on e85 at 35psi, made 541hp at DB. 1650's should be fine for that turbo setup.

**Halon** · 03-06-2013

I would not recommend the old 1600's if you care about consistent drivability. Size wise they're fine, but they aren't the greatest for drivability.

If you'd rather use an online generic sizing calculator then here ya go:
http://rceng.com/technical.aspx?User...6xgYyAslJPYjew

The generic numbers I use for BSFC are gasoline 0.60, E85 0.85.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 03-06-2013

I have good formulas I use for determining injector sizing based on HP output to the wheels, dyno type, 2WD vs AWD, # of cylinders, general VE of that type of motor, fuel type, base fuel pressure, max duty cycle, and peak HP RPM.

dsmreck · 03-06-2013

lol do I get an askhole cookie. OK i'm actually starting to get somewhere. I could prob go 1450 but wont max turbo out but will most likely not have and drivability issues...

1650 more power more issues. not sure how bad the issues will be yet...

or 2150 guaranteed to give all the fuel I need deff over board, twice the cost. Do these tune with zero issues?

I think i'm going to go 1650. I will make plenty of power to satisfy just about anyone, and it sounds like shane has no problem trying to make a good tune with them. Map tells me not to get them cause of the known dead spots. Hope they aren't too bad.

Maybe someday I can join the big boys in the 2150cc club, but prob not now unless someone has a good used set.

turbotalon1g · 03-06-2013

I have 2150s because they make me feel cool, but it's effects have run out already.

The old 1600s suck, get hi-z injectors I thought I heard rumors of them coming out with some mid sized one's soon.
The old 1600s would have a weird cruise miss, but I got them to idle perfect with BC 280 cams and idle at 950rpms.

**CornFed2.4** · 03-06-2013

My 1600 would hiccup cruising but that was the only issue. Idle everything else was fine

dsmreck · 03-06-2013

lol doubt you feel cool turbotalon1g but I do now know why you recommend them as I hear they have no tuning issues.

High z do sound nice and all but I just found some bluemax 1650's on the used and i'm just going to try them...

Shane says there could still be idle and part throttle hiccups with the 1650's as well, but for now as long as they are not complete crap I'm sure i'll be more than happy...

I do appreciate all the help so far, it's just been a tough decision for me, and I really want to learn something here not just buy parts....

So who wants to help an askhole get a tune for the injectors and SD good enough to daily a few times and get me 3 hours to db?