High Knock in my Talon

**Halon** · 06-02-2005

Well I finally hooked a logger up to my car because it felt rather weak. I find out that as soon as I punch the gas to the floor, my knock count shoots up to 42 and stays there until I let go of the gas, and my timing gets pulled to like 9 or so. First I tried resetting my ignition timing. That didn't fix it. Next I went to Mitsu and purchased a new knock sensor. That didn't fix it. That is where I stand right now. I have my psi set to 10 so I'm not shoving a ton of air in there, and I've tried richening it up by adding fuel with the SAFC and nothing changes. What else should I be trying? I heard to try and convert to newer lifters or something like that. So as of now, that will probably be my next approach. Or even go and buy some extremely high octane gas. Not sure where to get that neither. But any other insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

**JET** · 06-02-2005

How did you torque down the knock sensor? They are pretty picky.

Matt D. · 06-02-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET

How did you torque down the knock sensor? They are pretty picky.

My first question as well.

TheBlizzard · 06-02-2005

Bad injector/fuel supply.

A//// Guy · 06-02-2005

How old is the gas in your car? Seeing that youve been gone for a while overseas. If thats not it, yea check the knock sensor torque and maybe make sure your timing is all correct.

I know that when my car skipped a couple of teeth on the timing belt it would knock anytime you hit 0 or higher on the boost gauge. And then after a little driving you could hear the valve pistons toughing a little...

**Halon** · 06-02-2005

The knock sensor was not torqued down in any sort of special manner. I just wrenched it on there tight. What torque should it be on there at? Should I have used Locktite or anything? Also this has been a problem since before I left. It's always felt a little weak, so I don't think it's the gas. Plus the gas in my car is new. I've been home maybe a week and have filled it 3 times already. I do have new 650 injectors I could install, but just didn't want to go installing anything until I got this figured out. Should I throw them in and just see what happens? Also one other little symptom I'll add with this. Only if I floor it at like under 4k does this happen. If I slowly get the RPM's up past like 4-4.5k, and then punch it, I usually get no knock, or the occasional 4 or whatever. But when the RPM's are low, like trying to accelerate in 3rd gear with RPM's at like 3k, she is pretty deng slugish all the way through the whole RPM band and I get the crazy knock readings. I also get these reading just in neutral sitting in the garage and reving it up. Thanks for the help so far though!

A//// Guy · 06-02-2005

I would really double check your timing to be safe first, then check over everything else. Just make sure the camshafts are lined up and that should be good.

**Goat Blower** · 06-03-2005

Check your fuel controller settings for the midrange, it sounds like you're getting too much fuel. You could also pull the plugs immediately after a pull and see if you have a rich cylinder or something.

**Halon** · 06-09-2005

Sorry I have not had internet access at my house since I got home until about an hour ago. OK I double checked the timing. All marks lined up, and timing is set right around 8-9 BTDC. As far as the SAFC, everything is set to 0 right now because I haven't put in any of the new parts yet. Steve maybe when you get my car, I'll drive the Talon there to pick it up and see if you see anything that I don't if you don't mind taking a peek at it. This is real annoying because I lose a ton of power when this happens. It seems like it's a problem right around the 3-4k range. Even if I am accellerating at a nice normal moderate rate, right when I hit around 3k rpms, it kinda bogs off and on until I'm over 4k and then I'll get most the power back. Thanks again for everyones help.

**Halon** · 06-09-2005

OK well 650's are in. I was hoping maybe I had bad injectors or something, but my problem remains. I listened really close after taking it for a spin around the block. When I hit it in the lower RPM range, I do hear a ticking sound. Kinda sounds like when you snap your fingers. Not a loud knocking tick sound, more of a tingy bubbly tap that goes faster and slower with the RPMs. What usually makes that kinda sound? I'm guessing it has something to do with what's going on but i'm not 100% for sure.

LightningGSX · 06-09-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by me612

Sorry I have not had internet access at my house since I got home until about an hour ago. OK I double checked the timing. All marks lined up, and timing is set right around 8-9 BTDC. As far as the SAFC, everything is set to 0 right now because I haven't put in any of the new parts yet. Steve maybe when you get my car, I'll drive the Talon there to pick it up and see if you see anything that I don't if you don't mind taking a peek at it. This is real annoying because I lose a ton of power when this happens. It seems like it's a problem right around the 3-4k range. Even if I am accellerating at a nice normal moderate rate, right when I hit around 3k rpms, it kinda bogs off and on until I'm over 4k and then I'll get most the power back. Thanks again for everyones help.

Your base timing is set to 8-9 Deg's?

**Halon** · 06-09-2005

It is right around that when I have the timing plug grounded under the hood. Is this not right? What should it be at?

Also I'm looking for some of the revised lifters. Anyone know off the top of their head who has them for a good price?

A//// Guy · 06-10-2005

What kind of oil are you running? If you have stock HLAs and your running mobil 1 they will tick and you might get knock. I run Castrol syntec and its the best oil Ive used against lifter tick. I get no knock and my hlas have 199k on them.

I believe that your timing should be around 7 when the plug isnt grounded. It should be at about 5 when your plug is grounded.

**Kracka** · 06-10-2005

[QUOTE=me612]The knock sensor was not torqued down in any sort of special manner. I just wrenched it on there tight.QUOTE]

You just answered your own question. Knock sensors are very sensitive, follow the procedures and torque specs exactly as stated in a service manual (Helms, Chilton, etc.)

Pimpin Dsmstyle · 06-10-2005

i got my chilton at a checkers. You could also probably find information like this online somewhere. Maybe www.vfaq.com ? OTherwise I'm sure Mike knows. Austen should know as well. I believe mine is right about 7.

**Halon** · 06-10-2005

My Chiltons and Haynes are in boxes, somewhere, being shipped here from this tiny island in the ocean far far away. No clue when they will be here, and so I have no clue about the torque specs. Anybody know by chance? I just know I wrenched it on real tight. Also to torque it, do you just use one of those O2 sockets with a slot in the side cut out for the wire? Today the car is running much better though. I'm guessing the fuel injectors did something. My knock stays pretty low now but does get up near 20 on occasions, but atleast no more 40 counts.

**JET** · 06-10-2005

Alright, you have several problems. Set your timing to 5 BTDC (like the stick under the hood says). The tapping sound could very well be plug wires. Third, set your knock sensor correctly. I believe it is 10 ft-lbs that it is supposed to be set at, that is not very tight at all. If you get it too tight it will be overly sensitive and read too much knock.

**Halon** · 06-10-2005

Alrighty. I had always thought it was supposed to be 8 BTDC with the plug grounded. But you're saying 5 with the plug grounded, so I will try that. And then once it's ungrounded, it should go to around 7 or so? Anywho, I will do that. Also I will torque the knock sensor less like you said. Again though, what do you guys use to torque it? Just a little O2 type socket? I don't have a way really to use a torque wrench with the sensor because I don't have a socket that will go around it, yet have a gap so that wire has somewhere to hang out, kinda like an O2 socket. And the plug wires have maybe 3k miles on them, but if the first two things you mentioned don't work, then I'll try new wires since they really aren't that much money, and also throw in new plugs. Thanks again for the help.

**Halon** · 06-11-2005

OK well I readjusted the timing to 5, and I still don't have a way to torque the Sensor in, so I just loosened it and then tightened it snug, not really tight like I had it. The car seemed to perform better the way I had it. I'm getting some 43 counts again now. So annoying. I need to get a way to torque that sensor down, just so I can rule that out.

**Kracka** · 06-11-2005

10 ft/lbs is barely past finger tight. For starters, I'd go finger tight then a tiny turn with the wrench.