High Knock in my Talon

[john]

I am pretty sure it is 6ft/lbs. If your car has been sitting for a while, you may want to try some MCCC. I had the same problem. I cleaned the cylinders and it went away. When driving the car, hammer the gas until it knocks, get off and hammer it again and see if the knock is gone. Mine would dissapear after letting off the throttle for a second. If yours does the same, clean the cylinders.

[Halon]

Yes I think I am going to try that also. I also did do the finger tight and then just a little more with a wrench. MCCC is something I'll try as soon as I get my second car. Thanks

[Halon]

Well now that my car starts, I'm back to troubleshooting this. I am heading to the dodge dealership right now to get some MCCC. I was out there today playing with the knock sensor. I still don't have any means to torque it to a specific number. So I tried just finger tightening it, then finger tight with a little itty bitty turn of a wrench, then a little more, then barely finger tight. Nothing seems to be changing at all. This is a new knock sensor, new gas, my car doesn't have any lifter tick that I can hear.

This knock is getting ridiculous. I don't even have to by moving. I can just have it sittin in the garage, in neutral, and rev it up, and the knock is through the roof about a half second after the pedal hits the floor. We'll see if this MCCC changes anything. I also am going to double check the ignition timing. I'll write back with my findings. If this doesn't fix it, I will probably see if I can stop by LSE and have them quick torque the sensor for me since I know they have a socket for it.

[xveganxcowboyx]

If you have access to high octane gas it wouldn't hurt to try that. If it knocks on 100+ octane you can be pretty sure it's not real knock.

The weather and oil may be making your valve lash adjusters tick. They may do it even with different oil and warmer weather. If you end up needing to replace the VLA's I would search ebay for 3G lifters. Last I saw full sets were going for $100 which is the best price I've seen.

Have you done a boost leak test recently? Not sure about knock, but that can cause timing issues and I had similar problems when I was leaking boost.

[Halon]

This problem is VERY OLD. If you look at my first post, this car did this even in warm weather. Heck it did this in Arizona, so it's not the cold weather. I just didn't want to start a new thread, so I'm continuing this one.

Earlier I reset my base timing to +5 BTDC. Then I bought 2 cans of MCCC. I sprayed one completely through the PCV valve. I could only do it in 1 minute spurts though, because after about 1 minute, I couldn't hardly breath due to a beautiful exhaust leak right at my O2/DP flange. But anyway, I did that, let it idle for like 10 minutes, then took it for a ride around the block. I did see a slight improvement. I came home, parked it, pulled the plugs, and sprayed the 2nd bottle evenly into all 4 cylinders. I will let it sit overnight and clean it out tomorrow. If it's still there, then I will make sure I get that knock sensor tighted to EXACTLY what it should be.

Then if it's still there, then I will go ahead and throw some high octane gas in there and see what happens. I still don't think I have that loud of lifters, but if it's still there, I will get the new lifters. I am running plain jane Valvoline 10W30. I know Hughes is a fan of using thicker Rotella, does anyone else reccommend switching to a thicker oil? I did use Rotella once, but seemed to notice higher oil pressure with it and was a little worried about it. But maybe I was just being a chicken.

Anywho, I will write back once I see what happens tomorrow!

[tim]

Do you plan on driving this in the winter? If so I would probably stay away from the thicker oil.

[Halon]

Nope. I have another car that is my daily driver. This is my summer toy. The only winter it's seen is this year, it's been driven 3 times, but only when the roads were completely free of snow. I enjoy having a 91 with zero rust on it!

[Goat Blower]

Torqueing the knock sensor isn't that important, and won't cause the problems you're describing. It sounds like you've already got it in there just fine.

If it's carbon build-up on the pistons, letting the MCCC soak should take care of it. Make sure to change your oil immediately afterwards since you've just washed your cylinder walls down.

When I had "phantom knock", it was from dirty lifters. It wasn't audible like you'd normally hear, but it happened to be in the frequency pocket that the knock sensor picks up. No need to buy new ones, just pull yours out, let them soak in a bucket of kerosene overnight, then take each one, spin the top til the two holes line up, and blow it out with some compressed air. Compress them and put them back in, they should fill with oil in 30 seconds or so once you start the engine.

A faulty knock sensor could also be causing this, but I'm guessing that's the first thing you looked at.

[Halon]

This is a new knock sensor with probably less then a thousand miles on it.

As for cleaning them, I will try that if the rest of this doesn't work. The only thing I didn't understand is when you said 'compress them and put them back in'. What do you mean by compress them? Thanks again!

[tim]

I am pretty sure he means to compress them so all of the kerosene it out of them. You dont want to put them in filled with fluid. Correct me if I am wrong though.

[Halon]

How do I do that? I have never compressed a lifter.

[Goat Blower]

No, the kerosene or other cleaner comes out when you use the air pressure. Compressing the lifters allows them to fill with oil right away when the engine is started, plus there's a possibility of bending a valve or two if it's not done since the valve could be open slightly when the piston comes up to TDC. You can compress them by sticking a very thin piece of metal like a pin in the top hole of the lifter and squeeze it with your fingers. Or the down and dirty way Marco showed me at the shootout, use a bottle jack and slowly compress them against something that doesn't move, like the rail on a car trailer.

[cudvig]

I had this same problem, changed the oil to synthetic and it went right away. I'm willing to bet that its dirty lifters.


-Colin

[Halon]

Cool, I will do that later on. I just got my air compressor home just now, and also the garage heater! It's been rough going out there working in the freezin arse garage, but now she'll be nice and warm!

[A//// Guy]

YOu could try going to a synthetic to lube those lifters a little better. I tried mobil 1 and htat was the worst for lifter tick, but I never had phatom knock on my car even with 200k on the lifters. I loved castrol syntec because it made the lifter noise go away about 10 seconds after you started the car. Thats just my experiences with oil... but if you havent been using synthetic ever, then your engine seals might start leaking becuase of the penetration factor of synthetic oils.

[Halon]

Yes I'm not really wanting to go Synthetic as the car has never seen it that I know of, and I don't think switching to Synthetic at 109k miles is a good idea. But I did do that MCCC cleaning, and it made a difference, but the problem is still present. Also I put in Rotella oil again since it's a bit thicker, in hopes that maybe it'd quiet stuff down a little bit. The problem now is ,only when I hit it from below 3500 is it really a problem. If I rev it over that slowly, and then punch it, i don't get any knock for the most part.

I have now removed the lifters, and have them soaking in some gas to hopefully get them clean. I have my aircompressor here now, so in the morning I will line up these holes and blow out whatever's in there, and attempt to compress these things! I'm still trying to figure that out, but I'm sure I'll figure it out. Then we'll see what happens!

[Goat Blower]

Now that's hardcore, working on the DSM on a Saturday night when it's fucking freezing outside. You go girl! I'll just go make myself another Captain Coke. Mmmmmm, sailing with the Captain. Arghhhhhhh..

[Halon]

Ya thank god I got that garage heater. I need to get a new one though. 35k BTU in a 2 car garage is pretty wimpy. It worked great in my old 1 car, but this 2 car I have to have the thing on non-stop to keep it at a comfortable level.

I thought you said you're party was going to be boring Steve, sounds like you're doin just fine!

Oh and I did figure out how to compress those things. I got my special tool that is doing the trick just fine (paper clip and needlenose pliers)!!

BTW, does anyone have one of those timing belt special tools? The real long bolt looking one? If anyone does, I would really like to borrow it tomorrow!! My battery bolt temp one is pretty much shot now and I don't think it'll work anymore.

[Halon]

Well they are all cleaned, and I soaked em in oil for a little bit, and then compressed the oil out of them so all there is is a thin coating inside them for now.

All I need to finish the job is the timing belt bolt tool. I took the cams out to do this, I probably could have just left them in, but well I didn't. So if anyone has that tool they'd be willing to lend out for a few hours, then let me know! Otherwise I will just get one during the week sometime.

[TheBlizzard]

Brandon do you have the timing belt totally off right now?