Obamacare, Opinions?

[tpunx99GSX]

Besides the Individual mandate What are your opinions of Obamacare?
Please read the bill before forming an opinion, If i find that you havent checked your answer prior to posting i will be very angry and put you in the stockades.
The reason I say besides the individual mandate is that nobody likes paying for things. They like getting stuff but never want to pay for it.
Heres a link to the bill http://www.healthcare.gov/law/full/

[Goat Blower]

Without going through all of that, I will say that I've definitely noticed that our premiums have gone up quite a bit in the last year or two and the amount of things covered has gone down. This was also confirmed last time I was in the doctor's office when the office manager quietly mentioned that certain parts of coverage were getting dropped for basically everybody that pays premiums. That's all I'm going to throw in this.

[tpunx99GSX]

Thats actually been happening for 5+ years. When I worked as a subcontractor for a company about 5 years ago, i needed to get my own insurance. The guy told me the monthly price and my jaw dropped, He stated its because of the amount of claims, Malpractice lawsuits, other lawsuits for insurance companies, and people going to the hospital without insurance and skipping out on the bill, they got their help because the docs are required to treat them.
This is something that the ACA is supposed to reign in by getting everyone covered one way or another.
Two things though: This past month we saw two benefits that actually directly affected my wallet in a positive way. 1) 100% covered birth control YAY and 2) UHG did not meet the 85% rule, so will be sending me a refund of some of my premiums paid throughout the year. (got a letter outlining that this was due to the Affordable Care Act). Still havent received my check yet, but its on its way.
Ive heard conflicting stories on this, but I would think that premiums would go down due to the amount of people entering the system with insurance. I am not sure how fast it will go down, but logic says that the insurance companies are getting a shit load of new business, they should be able to lower premiums or at least stabilize them. as well as the opening of Preventative clinics around the country hopefully people will utilize them and we will be able to keep everyone a bit more healthier.

[A//// Guy]

Insurance has been going up for a long time, a little every year. I dont think that has anything to do directly with obama though. Well see how actual obamacare will affect things over the next few years, but there are a lot of pros and cons to the plan. These bugs need to be worked out.

I still dont know how obama care will be paid for.

[asshanson]

I agree there are some good things about the plan, such as no longer being able to deny people because of preexisting conditions.
I still think people are going to skip out on bills though. Say they do have health insurance now but have to go to the ER, they are still going to max out their deductible or max the out of pocket per year which is still thousands of dollars. I guess at least the hospital is only out a few grand instead of 10k+ though.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by A//// Guy

I still dont know how obama care will be paid for.

See Title IX of the link i provided, listed as Revenue provisions.
Summary from the Title.
"The Act makes health care more affordable for families and small business owners by providing the largest middle class tax cuts for health care in American history. Tens of millions of families will benefit from new tax credits which will help them reduce their premium costs and purchase insurance. Families making less than $250,000 will see their taxes cut by hundreds of billions of dollars.

When enacted, health reform is completely paid for and will reduce the deficit by more than one hundred billion dollars in the next ten years."

[Halon]

That didn't explain how it's being paid for?

While I don't like the idea of government running healthcare, I don't know enough about the plan to really form a strong educated opinion. I do think healthcare was getting out of control the way it was, so I'm pro-change. I hope it ends up being an improvement.

[Speedfreak]

I haven't read the bill, but I have a little insight from the insurance company point of view. A good friend is an exec in one of our big healthcare companies, and is directly working on healthcare reform(both within their organization, and with the US government).

Short version, it may not change how much money comes out of the majority of the populations pocket per year, but it will cover a lot more people who are currently not covered.

Also, premiums have steadily gone up for the last 30 years(likely more), and all our out of pockets will continue on that path until we are all dead.

What changes is what is covered, who is covered, how they are covered etc. Of course this is very general, but when trying to find the silver lining, or the supreme negative when picking his brain.. there are pros and cons to any direction healthcare goes in the USA. None are great, and realistically not a selling point for any potential candidate.

We are all screwed regardless.


PS: I've quickly skimmed the political threads thus far, and am shocked by the civility up to this point(except the opening thread of course).

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by Halon

That didn't explain how it's being paid for?

While I don't like the idea of government running healthcare, I don't know enough about the plan to really form a strong educated opinion. I do think healthcare was getting out of control the way it was, so I'm pro-change. I hope it ends up being an improvement.

Sorry Halon, The summary i quoted i read it afterwards and said the same thing. but i didnt want to quote all of the different titles.
Basically its paid for by taking the current system, streamlining a lot of the process through electronic records etc, then imposing various fees and taxes (yes i said taxes) on various items such as elective surgery, and high income earners. (over $250k a year). But I recall reading somewhere (not sure if i read it in the actual bill or somewhere else) but they are closing a error where pharmacies were double billing the gov for medicare claims.

I have read the bill once when it came out. And constantly go back to it whenever a story comes out about it to check the validity of the statement. and to be honest, its not as scary of a piece of legislation that everyone is making it out to be. Even if you were to read just the titles then the sections under each title, it actually explains a lot. Then if it peeks your interest, read the section.

[Goat Blower]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Basically its paid for by taking the current system, streamlining a lot of the process through electronic records etc, then imposing various fees and taxes (yes i said taxes) on various items such as elective surgery, and high income earners. (over $250k a year). But I recall reading somewhere (not sure if i read it in the actual bill or somewhere else) but they are closing a error where pharmacies were double billing the gov for medicare claims.

While this is all well and good on paper, there's no way this will actually happen. Show me ONE government program that has gone according to plan without massive overspending, there is no such animal. Medicare, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, the post office and the list goes on and on. This is a spending bill pure and simple and everybody will get taxed, not just "high earners".

While premiums have been increasing, they jumped massively in the last two years. I've been paying for my own healthcare for over 20 years now, I'm pretty good at noticing trends when I'm writing the checks.

[Halon]

Originally Posted by tpunx99GSX

Sorry Halon, The summary i quoted i read it afterwards and said the same thing. but i didnt want to quote all of the different titles.
Basically its paid for by taking the current system, streamlining a lot of the process through electronic records etc, then imposing various fees and taxes (yes i said taxes) on various items such as elective surgery, and high income earners. (over $250k a year). But I recall reading somewhere (not sure if i read it in the actual bill or somewhere else) but they are closing a error where pharmacies were double billing the gov for medicare claims.

I have read the bill once when it came out. And constantly go back to it whenever a story comes out about it to check the validity of the statement. and to be honest, its not as scary of a piece of legislation that everyone is making it out to be. Even if you were to read just the titles then the sections under each title, it actually explains a lot. Then if it peeks your interest, read the section.

Might be a little off topic, but from what I hear from my wife, their pharmacy gets screwed pretty consistently from Medicare. They bill them, but Medicare just pays whatever they think it should have cost which is often less than the pharmacies cost. So I guess I'm not all that surprised some places would try to double bill them. Not saying its right, just not surprised.

[JET]

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

While this is all well and good on paper, there's no way this will actually happen. Show me ONE government program that has gone according to plan without massive overspending, there is no such animal. Medicare, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, the post office and the list goes on and on. This is a spending bill pure and simple and everybody will get taxed, not just "high earners".

While premiums have been increasing, they jumped massively in the last two years. I've been paying for my own healthcare for over 20 years now, I'm pretty good at noticing trends when I'm writing the checks.

That is my take on it too, while it may not look horrible now, what government run program actually works? Look at other countries with healthcare systems similar to this and see what the people think. It isn't as extreme as Canada, but it is a step in that direction and their system is horrible. People pay full costs to come to the U.S. and get treatment, not just rich people either.

I think everyone can agree that the government is too big now, why make it even bigger? I want the government involved in less things in my life, not more. They never run things efficiently. This always take too long to do (10 committees to approve anything) and the costs are way too high ($400 toilet seats for the military anyone?). It is just going to end up being one more tax burden on us, no matter how good the intentions were.

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

While this is all well and good on paper, there's no way this will actually happen. Show me ONE government program that has gone according to plan without massive overspending, there is no such animal. Medicare, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, the post office and the list goes on and on. This is a spending bill pure and simple and everybody will get taxed, not just "high earners".

While premiums have been increasing, they jumped massively in the last two years. I've been paying for my own healthcare for over 20 years now, I'm pretty good at noticing trends when I'm writing the checks.

Unfortunately yes, there are a large number of government programs that get out of hand and go over budget. But we not only need to look at how much its costing but how much it is saving in terms of medical costs, pharm costs, and others, as well as how much it will improve quality of life to live in America. For every Canadian you ask that says their healthcare system sucks, you can find another that says its just fine. I have a friend that I went to college with that has had no issues with the healthcare system. For every issue out there, you can find opposing views of it. Its a simple argument of he who yells loudest gets heard. (i.e. people complain when they get bad service, but dont usually make a fuss when the system works)

I would take Welfare and Food Stamps out of the above statement. Those programs have a ROI better than any gov program out there, a study i read about 6 months ago stated that the ROI of the food stamp program was for every dollar spent the return was $1.73. (The argument was what was the best way to stimulate the economy, stimulus vs expansion of the food stamp program)

The problem isnt with the government not being efficient, i think the main problem is that anything this government does affects not only us, but every nation in the world. Certain oversight needs to keep in check, which is why it takes so long to get legislation through. We have seen what no government regulation does in the eyes of a global economic disaster. Would the recession have happened had the proper oversight been in place? who knows? I know this is getting off topic now.

[93gtpeater]

We need the healthcare system overhauled. Iam on mn care right now and its great but if I get a small.raise I will lose my health care cause I make to much. They would have me switch over to a differnt bracket that I can not afford. if you make under 20k a year your ok but anything more then that your screwed.

[JET]

The problem with most of these studies is that they have an agenda no matter who is doing them. The welfare and food stamp systems are quite flawed as well. I see people getting steaks and frozen pizza's with food stamps. Give these people the basics to survive! Flour, bread, cheese, milk, hamburger, etc. If you want to get fancy or lazy, then it is on you. This is just common sense stuff that is blatantly obvious.

As far as welfare, there are generations of people out there that are perfectly content on welfare and have no intentions of getting a job. Some try to get pregnant and have more kids just so they get more welfare then don't spend squat on the kids. It is a horrible system right now with no motivation to get out of the system.

In a company you have the motivation to make your company as profitable as possible, this gives them more money to spend on you! There is none of that when working with the government as you know you will never see any of it. There is also the opposite effect, if you don't spend every penny in your budget you know they will lower your budget for next year. This leads to people buying crap they don't need just so their budget isn't lower next year. It just makes me depressed thinking about how much money is wasted and how much better the country would be if that money was used properly!

[A//// Guy]

Well said Jet!

[tpunx99GSX]

Originally Posted by JET

The problem with most of these studies is that they have an agenda no matter who is doing them. The welfare and food stamp systems are quite flawed as well. I see people getting steaks and frozen pizza's with food stamps. Give these people the basics to survive! Flour, bread, cheese, milk, hamburger, etc. If you want to get fancy or lazy, then it is on you. This is just common sense stuff that is blatantly obvious.

As far as welfare, there are generations of people out there that are perfectly content on welfare and have no intentions of getting a job. Some try to get pregnant and have more kids just so they get more welfare then don't spend squat on the kids. It is a horrible system right now with no motivation to get out of the system.

In a company you have the motivation to make your company as profitable as possible, this gives them more money to spend on you! There is none of that when working with the government as you know you will never see any of it. There is also the opposite effect, if you don't spend every penny in your budget you know they will lower your budget for next year. This leads to people buying crap they don't need just so their budget isn't lower next year. It just makes me depressed thinking about how much money is wasted and how much better the country would be if that money was used properly!

My wifes mother was on food stamps at one point, and it wasnt anything like you are describing, she felt embarrassed and was fortunate enough to get back on her feet. She was very health conscious and the food items that were available to her at the time were not steaks and high end healthy foods, she made the choice to try and get the best foods she could to keep her children healthy. (you arent suggesting that the government step in and tell people what to eat, and what to buy, are you? because that would not be very conservative) Regardless, the people you speak of, being the lazy stereotypical welfare/food stamp recipient, is not typical of the people on these programs. to actually believe that someone strives to be on welfare/food stamps is ridiculous, and few and far between. There is no reason to cut off the head to spite the face. These programs do much more good to families that have not been fortunate enough to gain a high paying or are struggling to make ends meet and keep their family alive. They dont sit in lavish condos while receiving these benefits. All they want to do is feed their family. This government is not china, where we arent going to tell you how many children you can and cannot have. (that would be considered communism, and big govt).

To the last paragraph, government waste is definitely an issue here, i will totally agree with you there. But the programs to cut are not those that help our struggling Americans here. Cut War spending, Cut spending on the $400 toilet seats etc. But Healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, Food Stamps, School lunch programs, are all domestic funding where the money stays here and is not for things that blow up. Every time i see a missile launch and go boom, i dont see fire... i see dollar bills floating into the air.

[A//// Guy]

Tom do you really think most people on welfare act that way though? There are tons and tons of people who abuse welfare and there is little to no regulation. Finally Florida made it a law to submit to drug tests before you get any type of welfare, which seems like common sense! People on welfare in certain areas of the country are there because there are no jobs, but a lot of them don't care to work either. Having more and more children seems to be a better idea since the govt hands out even more money that way. That is the problem, its a chain of events that has made it way too easy to just hold on to that lifestyle. There should be limits to welfare IMO.

It does all come down to wasting money, and the govt seems to be a Pro at that. Sadly I don't see either side fixing that issue. Things are way out of control and I really do question how obamacare will get paid for, regardless of whats on paper. While id love to see everyone in the country be able to afford decent healthcare, the cost is really the problem.

[tpunx99GSX]

Honestly I would really like to see an agenda free study done on welfare abuses. Which in the coming years should be very easily done now that they have changed to EBT cards, which can track purchases. I do not think that the stereo type of a welfare recipient meets the criteria that the media tends to push.
On the drug testing, the results have varied greatly based on the study reporter, varying between 4% and 37% on a number of different variables, such as weather alcohol and prescription drugs are considered drug abuse. Conservative media outlets seem to push the idea that all welfare recipients are drug abusers. The main push behind this as we talked about in the SB a couple days ago, is that if they are receiving public money they should submit to a drug test, well then i want congress, senate and the president and any other public official to submit to the same drug test as they receive pubic money.
Also you want to decrease spending, well this FL law is actually not saving FL ANY money, its actually costing more money than its saving. We have gotten a bit off topic here, maybe a new thread is in order as this is a good subject.

[Halon]

I would hope the president and those in office are subject to drug screening. Anyone here that was recently in the military can tell you that we were all subject to random drug screening at any time. I was typically tested about twice a year.