why new FP big16g no make power?

[FattyBoomBatty]

So, my friend with a very nearly stock conquest just upgraded from the 12a to an FP-made big 16g turbo.

At the same boost level as before (13psi) there was no difference from stock. We were both expecting it to be at least noticably faster, yet it was not. So we turned it up to 15psi, pretty much the same thing, almost imperceptibly faster. We looked under the hood, and one of his couplers wasn't holding the pipe in, we though that might be contributing to the slowness, and we replaced the pipe with the stock cloth-wrapped rubber hose. No change.

I had peered into the exhaust and inlet of this new turbo, and it is slightly different, a little bigger, but there looked to be a larger-than-normal gap between the blades and the housing walls. He didn't take great pictures, but could even a slightly too-large gap cause a turbo to perform so badly?

here are his pictures, plus one of my 61 for comparison:




Just looking at the stock turbo, the gap was significantly smaller on both intake and exhaust wheels. Could FP have messed this up?

Also, he has the stock exhaust with a downpipe and different muffler, but even so, I'd think we'd be able to tell a difference just switching out turbos.

His exhaust made an incredibly loud hissing sound when he'd get on it. It's kindof like stock cars flooring it, but just a lot louder.

Any ideas about this?

[jrohner]

16g's are slow at only 15psi.

[FattyBoomBatty]

I'm really thinking now that the exhaust wheel is normal and the housing is an H housing, since it's different and the blades aren't as close as they should be to it.

jrohner, that's a precious piece of commentary. Too bad it's retarded. Now try again but use your brain.

[CVD]

He might have a point. When my talon was stock the very first thing I did was swap the blown 14B for a 16G. I couldn't tell the difference, even at slightly higher boost levels. That said, I would start with a boost leak test.

[95tsi]

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

jrohner, that's a precious piece of commentary. Too bad it's retarded. Now try again but use your brain.

This is why I love this board. The nice way people treat each other. Are you expecting to make 75whp more with a little bit bigger turbo at the same boost level?

[scheides]

Fatty, he's right. 16g vs 13g vs 14b is not going to make much difference at 13psi or whatever. First question, are there any boost leaks? Was there an actual boost leak test done? Next question, what other mods are done? Spaz's car is a prime example of why a 16g won't make any power over a T25. He's running it with literally everything else stock. Remember, making power is all about the combo, not just one particular part (remember at the dyno day when an hta88 made the same power as my 16g-sized turbo?).

[FattyBoomBatty]

I thought that was because it had some really small exhaust housing? We fixed an obvious boost leak by switching back to the stock I/C tube, and I checked all the clamps I could reach. And "16g's are slow at 15psi" is a retarded answer, I had to say something.

[CVD]

Do an actual boost leak test. Myself and lots of others here have testers you can probably borrow. But I still say you wont feel much difference at those boost levels without additional mods

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

I'm really thinking now that the exhaust wheel is normal and the housing is an H housing, since it's different and the blades aren't as close as they should be to it.

jrohner, that's a precious piece of commentary. Too bad it's retarded. Now try again but use your brain.

You really think you'll be fast just by swapping in a 16G, and I'm the retarded one? Too bad everyone else here agrees with a retard then . Yeah you'll have slightly more power, but feeling it depends on how sensitive your butt dyno really is. My car has over 400hp at 22-23 psi on a 16G, and it's still Fn slow at 15. These are little 4 cylinder's, they can't do without boost.

People like you on here really make me appreciate the people on the EvolutionM board, I don't think I've seen anyone on there like that -- people just help each other without the attitude.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by 95tsi

this is why i love this board. The nice way people treat each other. Are you expecting to make 75whp more with a little bit bigger turbo at the same boost level?

+8

[scheides]

Originally Posted by jrohner

People like you on here really make me appreciate the people on the EvolutionM board, I don't think I've seen anyone on there like that -- people just help each other without the attitude.

easy boys, play nice. And IDK where you hang out on EvoM, but people here are a hell of a lot nicer and more constructive than there.

[Gravy]

If you can, try cranking it up around the 18-19psi range. I'm not car god, but normally you go larger turbo for 2 main reasons, first off more boost. Which isn't making a huge difference in this case, but lets you boost more without spitting off really hot air. Or the second, to be more thermally efficient due to lack of a FMIC or SMIC for the most part.

The other thing you could look for with the hissing sound, do you have any leaks around the exauhst? That would cause similar problems, but would probably be more audibly noticeable.

[Shane@DBPerformance]

It's kinds like how a DSM with an SC61 on pump gas and not the best supporting mods makes the same as one with an Evo 3 16G on pump gas.

[FattyBoomBatty]

Originally Posted by jrohner

You really think you'll be fast just by swapping in a 16G, and I'm the retarded one? Too bad everyone else here agrees with a retard then . Yeah you'll have slightly more power, but feeling it depends on how sensitive your butt dyno really is. My car has over 400hp at 22-23 psi on a 16G, and it's still Fn slow at 15. These are little 4 cylinder's, they can't do without boost.

People like you on here really make me appreciate the people on the EvolutionM board, I don't think I've seen anyone on there like that -- people just help each other without the attitude.

Well people like you, who respond with a quick one liner that doesn't help anything really don't garner much respect from me. At least you could have given an example with your statement. You still don't seem to realize this isn't a dsm I'm talking about. I axed this question because pretty much everyone here has experience and/or above average knowledge in the area of turbos, especially the 16g.

This is obviously going nowhere, and he has no wideband to see when he should stop turning up the boost, and the last thing I want is to be responsible in part for blowing someone else's engine up. But from what people say (in the starquest world), there should have been more of a difference. There just wasn't any improvement by switching to an obviously larger turbo.

[A//// Guy]

Throwing a bigger turbo on and not tuning it properly on a dyno, shouldnt see any gains, at least drastically. It might just run leaner...

[JET]

There is probably another restriction to the air flow. Does he have a good exhuast? Is he still running the crappy stock FI setup? How about an intake? Power it all about air flow, there needs to be a clean path, a restriction in one place can kill the power. Now the fun part is finding the restriction.

[FattyBoomBatty]

It would probably be the mostly stock exhaust, he has a 2.5" downpipe going into the stock center section with some kind of smallish muffler. Stock TBI, with new FIC injectors.

Does anyone know how much gap there should be between the turbine blades and the housing?

[carltalon]

My car made noticable power after switching to a Big 16g. I had full 3 inch exhaust and free mods at the time. My 14b could have been dieing giving my a false feel of more power who knows.

[cmspaz]

Originally Posted by scheides

Spaz's car is a prime example of why a 16g won't make any power over a T25. He's running it with literally everything else stock. Remember, making power is all about the combo, not just one particular part

Don't know how I missed this thread yesterday, but thanks for pointing that out, Scheides, that was my first thought when I read the first post.

And beyond that, you won't notice a huge difference with a few extra psi because there won't be a huge difference in feel, despite the fact that it may make a huge difference in numbers. A good example of this that we've all heard about is my car vs ylime's. She put down ~50awhp more than me on MAP's dyno and beat the fuck out of me on the highway, and yet when I rode in it, my butt dyno didn't feel anywhere near as large of a difference as I was expecting for that kind of gap.

You can't rely on feel alone to tell you how much of a gain you're seeing.

[jrohner]

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

Well people like you, who respond with a quick one liner that doesn't help anything really don't garner much respect from me. At least you could have given an example with your statement. You still don't seem to realize this isn't a dsm I'm talking about. I axed this question because pretty much everyone here has experience and/or above average knowledge in the area of turbos, especially the 16g.

This is obviously going nowhere, and he has no wideband to see when he should stop turning up the boost, and the last thing I want is to be responsible in part for blowing someone else's engine up. But from what people say (in the starquest world), there should have been more of a difference. There just wasn't any improvement by switching to an obviously larger turbo.

This isn't English class where you write a paper and must state a list of examples. I was just stating the truth. I never slammed you, called you stupid, or anything else negative so I don't understand what lit the extremely short fuse. Still trying to help after that crap, I gave an example in a later post.

Just bolting on a different turbo doesn't mean you'll feel more power (especially at low boost); you just learned that just like everyone else that's done it. If you had the turbo about maxed out, that would be a different story. It seems like a waste to me, putting on a different turbo without making the most of what you already have unless the turbo was bad.