Engine's Knocking....

1slowdsm · 09-20-2005

Sorry. I didnt know where I should put this thread. So I just threw it on here.
The last time I was a the track a few weeks ago I have my logger logging my runs. I set an alarm to beep when I went over 21 counts of knock. And it would just keep beeping throughout most of 3rd gear and this is on only 13 psi. I have stock fuel, turbo-back system, intake, boost controller. I dont know if its really knock since I was running pretty much stock or just a bad sensor. I have the logger readings, but I dont know too much about it. And I cant find anything else abnormal when there's knock, like a sudden increase/decrease of something. Should I be worried about it with the stock fuel? I've also heard that it could just be the lifters setting off the knock sensor.

Outlaw1 · 09-21-2005

What kinda car are you talking about? What kinda state of tune is the engine in? Plug gap, etc.?

1slowdsm · 09-21-2005

Oh crap. I forgot all about that part, haha. It's a 1993 Talon TSI awd. Engine hasn't been tuned as far as I know, unless it was without me knowing

. Fuel never touched. Stock plugs, changed last summer. Anything else?

1QUICK4 · 09-21-2005

Check your timing, if you're to far advanced it could cause some serious knock even at stock boost levels.

KcGsXrated · 09-21-2005

Is it only in 3rd that you get knock?

desolate · 09-21-2005

check your base timing if it's knocking at 13psi.

1slowdsm · 09-22-2005

Would the timing just move by itself? I havent done anything with timing. I've looked at the belt like twice and thats it. At the Rock last time it was only in 3rd. It knocks every now and then when I'm just cruising around. I'll see if I can find someway to check my timing. I dont have a timing gun thing, but my cousin might.
*Edit* On a MMCD program does TIMA mean Timing Advance? If it does, how much is it supposed to normally advance by? Mine goes up to like 60 Degrees with no knock and then like 20 Degrees with knock.

94talonawd · 09-26-2005

well. does it knock only when the car is in load? does it knock when u take the car to 5k in first gear slowly? more information. but i would check your base timing. go get a timing gun and check it and adjust the timing thingamajiggy on the left side of the head.

94talonawd · 09-26-2005

it could be phantom knock if u just drive it normally and all of a suddin knock jumps up to like 20 for a few seconds and back down. or in my case, thats what happens to me.

niterydr · 09-26-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 94talonawd

it could be phantom knock if u just drive it normally and all of a suddin knock jumps up to like 20 for a few seconds and back down. or in my case, thats what happens to me.

phantom knock doesn't exist.

EclipseGST · 09-26-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by niterydr

phantom knock doesn't exist.

So if that is the case... What do you call lifter tick that gets picked up by the knock sensor even though the engine is not knocking?

desolate · 09-26-2005

That would be phantom knock. Technically what causes that noise are from the lifters that is picked up by the knock sensor. I believe what he's trying to say is the knock sensor would not just recieve noise from nothing. Although in my past experience I drove a 92gsx with horrible lifters. At the time I was logging the car and found out that even though the noise from the lifters was loud, I wasn't getting any 'phantom knock'. Strange, but it must be different car to car.

niterydr · 09-26-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by EclipseGST

So if that is the case... What do you call lifter tick that gets picked up by the knock sensor even though the engine is not knocking?

I would call that lifter tick, therefore sending a knock signal to the knock sensor. "knock" can never be phantom, the ecu is hearing something. Just dismissing it as 'I know that is lifter tick, or an axle tapping on the block, or etc.." without fixing it, will cause you to melt your shit someday when it actually is knocking and you dismissed it as 'phantom'.
Noise is different, just because it is audible, doesn't mean the knock sensor picks it up, just fyi.

1slowdsm · 09-26-2005

I'll go check my timing this weekend at my cousin's. Then adjust the timing and see if I still get the same results.
It sometimes knocks when I'm in first gear and slowly climbing up the RPMs.
It only knocks when I'm underload.
On the MMCD program it seems to knock mostly when the TIMA is under 30 Degrees, does that seem right? Its like less timing advance=more chance of knock...:/
Sorry if I'm not giving enough information here, but I know very little about knock and what causes it. I'm trying my best.

CDeutsch · 09-26-2005

You should do some research on knock for your own reference, but to answer your question, more timing generally increases the chances for knock. Decreasing the timing and/or boost decreases it as does lowering the intake temp or increasing the octane.

Oh and 60 degrees of timing advance is insane under load are you sure you (or the software) are reading that right?

1slowdsm · 09-27-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDeutsch

Oh and 60 degrees of timing advance is insane under load are you sure you (or the software) are reading that right?

Well...I was looking at the TIMA on the MMCD software. I'll log it on the way to school and see how it goes.

94talonawd · 09-27-2005

it seems lke you havee timing issues. when your under load your timing advances and since base timing is already advance, its casing your engine to knock and retard timing. so i would definitly check your base timing.