beaterX project thread - Page 26

turbotalon1g · 10-31-2010

Good work mane!

Matt D. · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

If the assumption is expansion/contraction then the metal composition could be different, even if the clearances were the same.

I wouldn't expect OEM engine components to vary much.

**mlomker** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

I wouldn't expect OEM engine components to vary much.

Between 4G and 4B? I'm no engineer but I don't assume that tolerances being the same between those two engines means very much.

**scheides** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D.

I wouldn't expect OEM engine components to vary much.

4G63: Iron block

4b11t: aluminum block, (?)sleeves

That's all I was sayin. Perhaps expansion rates are different between the two and thus tollerences for the level of power/torque/boost that we enthusiasts like to run don't play well together.

**Murlo26** · 10-31-2010

Pretty sure the sleeves are iron on the 4b11.

89_Colt_GT · 10-31-2010

So I was expecting a beater not a Evo X lol

Speedfreak · 10-31-2010

I'd lean toward tune/detonation(caused by bad gas? maybe, but that tune is too on the edge IMO).. Then you can say those circumstances lead to the other theories as well(as a secondary effect).

I wouldn't use that head as is. Needs to be decked or cleaned up however possible(if possible). Those pits will make your tuning window smaller/attract the possibility of detonation.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 10-31-2010

Did any of the other pistons look all detonation ravaged like #1? Wonder if there was something going on with that injector or just the bad Duluth gas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Just talked to Shawn (simulatedwood) and he's leaning towards TTP's theory where the rings are gapped to tightly from the factory. Running good (high) timing for extended periods causes EGTs to get high and the pistons/rings fully fully expand causing the cyl wear that can be seen on all cylinders.

Higher timing lower EGTs. The scoring on the other cylinder is a little weird. Question is whether the damage was causes by parts from #1 getting into the others, the tight gap theory or something else. Were the spark plugs on the other 3 cylinders eaten up from det or look like something hit them?

Pushit2.0 · 10-31-2010

If this was a tight ring gap problem there would only be cylinder wall scoring, I see piston damage from the top of the piston to the top ring land and bellow. This looks like a case of to much timing for the boost/octane level for your setup.

~John

Constant_Project21 · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by FattyBoomBatty

What do you mean you don't know what caused that? The pistons lost chunks when you detonated and rubbed them against the cylinder walls before spitting them up into the chambers and munching your pistons.

I have to agree with Mr. Fatty on this one. That seems like a good case of detonation. Just because not everyone of the cylinders is fukked, doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't detonation. A friend of mine pulled apart one of his engines, after it went boom, and one piston had a hole in it, the others looked fine (from the top at least). Were you running a pretty aggressive tune on this beast? That, with crappy gas...prob caused your problem. I know I am just reiterating what others have said, sucks to hear doood!

**scheides** · 10-31-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

Did any of the other pistons look all detonation ravaged like #1? Wonder if there was something going on with that injector or just the bad Duluth gas.

Higher timing lower EGTs. The scoring on the other cylinder is a little weird. Question is whether the damage was causes by parts from #1 getting into the others, the tight gap theory or something else. Were the spark plugs on the other 3 cylinders eaten up from det or look like something hit them?

Yea I'm kinda contemplating getting the injectors flow tested but the rest of the pistons looked fine aside from the scoring and the one rough spot on #4.

All spark plugs looked fine and the other three combustion chambers on the head look great. I'll take closer pics when I dissassemble the sensors/tstat housing/exhaust manifold off of the head; it's obviously going to have to get looked at.

TalonFiero · 11-01-2010

Finally, this thread is a proper project thread now!

Good work Scheides and Kody. I'll be there to help you put it back together.

GG_9_SE · 11-01-2010

The only piston that looked like it didn't have any damage at all was #3. #1 was fucked, #2 had some slight pitting/ gouges on top, and #4 had a bur on the side the scratched the intake side of the cylinder wall. The only marks on the head though were on the #1 dome, and just barely into the valve seat. Hopefully you won't have to touch the head, but who knows. Deffinatly lemme know when its going back together!

Pushit2.0 · 11-01-2010

I would use a TIG welder to smooth out the pitting in the head. Then deck it, keeping the heat as low as possible and keeping the over all head temp low so you do not have issues with the valve seats.

~John

**scheides** · 11-01-2010

Sorry this is gonna be kinda long-winded, tons of things up in the air right now.

So even last week I started putting the feelers out to national and local shops to see who was busy, who had parts, who could do what and end of the day I am keeping the rebuild process local. We are truely blessed to have shops like DB Performance and Modern Automotive Performance nearby and I plan to use them to the fullest. Both shops have graciously held out their hand and it makes it tough to try and decide who to have do what. Ultimately my timeline and my wallet are going to be boss but if I had a little more of each I wouldn't bat an eye to drop the entire lot off at either shop and let them do it all.

Everything continues to be on backorder, but a few things are coming through: MAP has some of their new x-beam rods ready to rock. I may skip the GSC S2's in favor of Kelford 214-b's since they're in stock, but neither GSC nor Kelford beehive valvesprings are available until the end of november, so I am leaning towards Supertech duals. I will hold off on the cam decision for a few weeks while the motor is getting rebuilt and make the decision later.

MAP has all their machine shop tooling in-house and goddamn are they REALLY eager to use it! They seem to have a steady flow of motors going through so they're not a bad choice. DB thinks they can turn around the motor pretty quick too so really its anyone's guess at this point as I have full confidence in both's ability to produce a strong, reliable shortblock. I'm hoping we can stay away from political 'favorite shop' games and just keep nose to grindstone here as I probably need the help of both shops to get everything done in the timeframe I want: 2.5 weeks.

When I bought my house about 5 years ago my dad made me the most epic workbench ever. Thanks dad, putting it to good use now

So looking at the head, the damage is not nearly as bad as I remember. As long as there isn't damage to the seat itself like John suggested a few passes with a TIG with some skilled hands and then a nice deck job should do the trick. If there is any damage inside we'll just have to deal with it and go from there. I'd love a MAP stg4 port job on it but the is gonna be tough to justify the $$ and their porting department is like 6 weeks out which TOTALLY blows my timeline.

Here's some more pics of the head, exhaust ports (looking for particle damage) cyls 1-4:

And the CC's, cyl's 1-4:

Also examined the turbine wheel for damage, only thing I could find is a *slight* ding in the turbine wheel, but not sure if it is really anything (I've run worse turbos for years on DSMs).

So yea, bought some beefy rubbermaid totes to transport the block and head in, we'll see where things end up over the next few weeks but I am PUMPED as it looks like this thing will be coming together before too terribly long!

**Murlo26** · 11-01-2010

Looking good man! I'm excited to see your build coming along so quick, 2.5 weeks, holy shit! lol. That is crazy fast, I will be very impressed if you get it all back together by then, good luck

DoughtCom · 11-01-2010

You need help, I'm there. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread too.

**scheides** · 11-01-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

Looking good man! I'm excited to see your build coming along so quick, 2.5 weeks, holy shit! lol. That is crazy fast, I will be very impressed if you get it all back together by then, good luck

It is ambitious and maybe overstated; gunning to have the shortblock back by friday 11/19 so I can put the block/trans back in, bolt up accessories and turbo and then drop the head on as time allows soon thereafter (and make final cam decision accordingly).

**Murlo26** · 11-01-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

It is ambitious and maybe overstated; gunning to have the shortblock back by friday 11/19 so I can put the block/trans back in, bolt up accessories and turbo and then drop the head on as time allows soon thereafter (and make final cam decision accordingly).

Ambitious, sure..but with your resources and skills and desire I have no doubt you could get it done!

I think the kelfords are great for sure, but personally I'd vote wait it out for the GSC s2's

But you have rode in Zwinger's car and mine so you know how they both feel more or less and they are close in aggressiveness.

awd-drifter · 11-01-2010

good luck scheides! hopefully everything goes through man.