beaterX project thread - Page 27

**Halon** · 11-01-2010

Sorry to hear about the headache, but looks like you're keeping your head on straight and just figuring out how to move forward, which is great.

I also hear you on the whole "which shop to pick" ordeal. I'm in the same boat on mine where we have great local shops like DB, MAP, and Primo, and I'm sure they are all mature enough to not hold grudges about choosing one or the other for things. I plan on using as much local shop support as possible for my build, and to divy it up across the board as they are all great!! So I wouldn't worry about that at all if I were you. You have to do what works best for you in the end, and both DB and MAP have pretty solid motor builds running around so they are both completely capable beyond a doubt in my eyes.

Good luck, and let me know if you need a hand as I'm more than willing to get greasy just like I did with brownman and Kerry recently!

**mlomker** · 11-02-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

with your resources and skills and desire I have no doubt you could get it done!

It's a timely break-down. The racing season is over.

**scheides** · 11-08-2010

Ok, big update time but no pics sorry; purely a planning session.

First off I will be sending the injectors off to Deatschwerks to be inspected/flow tested purely out of curiosity. They have been insanely gracious on this and I was very careful when I approached them about it. I just want to try and get to the bottom of what happened and fix it so it doesn't happen again.

Next, the head. I dropped it off last week at DB Performance in an effort to get it fixed effectively and quickly. I was hoping for a quick weld job on the CC, a decking, and back on the car with a new set of valvesprings and cams......Ugh this was sobering news today on top of everything but the head has several bent valves and will need to be completely gone through to fix it. The chunk of ring must have had its way with this thing like Hotdog on Murlo. :P Anyways it is going to get fixed and stamped with a nice little DB Performance performance package: +1mm valves, 5-angle valvejob, basic porting, and either Cosworth single or Supertech dual valvesprings. This all will be topped off with Kelford 214-b's (readily available) or GSC S2's (not available until very end of November). I really want the S2's but the kelfords are well-proven cams as well. I will decide as things progress. Plagued with backorder stuff here.

Also a week ago I dropped off the shortblock at MAP. They are going to clean it up, machine it with an official 4b11t torque plate, and then outfit it with a set of their new x-beam rods (ooh lala) with some pimp JE pistons (with all the trimmings). They're confident about getting it done quickly so I jumped on the opportunity. The torque plate comes in tomorrow and all hell will break loose from there. I explored everything from 2.5L strokers to sleeved race blocks to a LS9 swap (ok just kidding) and this simple, vanilla setup seemed to be best for me.

side note: Normally I recommend people do not mix/match different parts and different shops but with the tallent we have local and being good friends with a lot of these guys it is honestly hard to choose and even harder to turn anyone down as I really do trust everyone I'm working with on this project. I know I've already stepped on a few toes but end of the day decisions gotta get made and I am the one to do it (well, and Anna

).

So yea, there's a few other small things going on with the project but I'll post pics as things happen. For now the car is sitting and I haven't touched it in over a week. Boo. Thanks for reading!

**Halon** · 11-09-2010

Sounds like a nice plan. If someone actually gets upset that you chose so and so to do your work, to me that is a bit selfish and immature. Like you said, we are lucky to have a diverse group of great shops and people to deal with, it's impossible to choose just one. In the end just gotta do what works best for your situation, and those that are truly your friends will understand and support you.

My opinion at least

Good luck with it man, sounds like progress is being made!!

**cmspaz** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

Sounds like a nice plan. If someone actually gets upset that you chose so and so to do your work, to me that is a bit selfish and immature.

For example: I'm sure Mike at AWD is raving mad right now.

**Kracka** · 11-09-2010

Mike @ AWD can go screw himself. I say good job on spreading the wealth among the local talent!

**mlomker** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

either Cosworth single or Supertech dual valvesprings.

Not sure if DB still has my broken head lying around but the Cosworth singles that I bought could still be in it. They were busy and I didn't push them to remove them for me.

turbotalon1g · 11-09-2010

Very nice. So u didn't go stroker?

(

Why are you so hung up on GSC S2s? They seem to be almost identical in performance with the Kelfords.

**mlomker** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

They seem to be almost identical in performance with the Kelfords.

It's tough to find people willing to do back-to-back cam tests on the X since swapping cams is a real pita compared to the 4g. Kelfords are known to make good gains while idling smoothly. That seems more scheides' style unless he's going all beast-mode now.

**scheides** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

Not sure if DB still has my broken head lying around but the Cosworth singles that I bought could still be in it. They were busy and I didn't push them to remove them for me.

Whoah, really? I will have shane check! If they're there we will def discuss

I need to verify the rev limit of them on a 'bigger' set of cams. If they're good to 9000 they will be my choice I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbotalon1g

Very nice. So u didn't go stroker?

(

Why are you so hung up on GSC S2s? They seem to be almost identical in performance with the Kelfords.

Stroker would have added time, cost, and unknown variables (its not like a 4G64/4G63 go yank a crank from the junk yard and let it rip kinda thing....there's only one or two 'kits' on the market and I'm not in a huge hurry to run out and try beat down an unproven path. Besides, this engine/head likes to rev, so with the 2.0 I will let it rev

The S2's are actually bigger than the Kelfords:

GSC S2 Specs:
Intake 274 Duration 11.20mm peak lift
Exhaust 274 Duration 11.00mm Peak Lift

Kelford 214-b specs:
Duration @ 0.1mm Valve Lift: 270 Inlet/260 Exhaust
Duration @ 1.0mm Valve Lift: 228 Inlet/220 Exhaust
Valve Lift @ 1 to 1: 11.00mm Inlet/10.50mm Exhaust

That being said the kelfords are getting rave reviews for smoothness but yielding power over standard kelfords as well as cosworth cams, while the main thing I've seen with the few people that have the S2's are that they make an amazing powerband. I rode in murlo's car with the S2's and they seemed plenty smooth for such a big cam.

End of the day if the shortblock and head are going to be done early enough I'll just go with the kelfords, but if there's any hold-ups I will likely just wait and hope the S2's are back in stock when they say they're gonna be.

**Murlo26** · 11-09-2010

I think you will be happy with the kelfords or the S2's. Both are great cams, I debated on the kelfords, but I wanted more top end as that is what my setup was aimed at, however I didn't seem to lose any low end

Kelfords are proven and work great, AMS still uses them in all their builds I believe. The kelford B's are designed for 35r sized turbos, I asked kelford and that is what they told me, so you should be good.

**scheides** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murlo26

Kelfords are proven and work great, AMS still uses them in all their builds I believe. The kelford B's are designed for 35r sized turbos, I asked kelford and that is what they told me, so you should be good.

Heh big cams + little turbo = most fun! This whole 'designed for XX-sized turbos' is kinda sillyness. Bigger cams will help you get more power more safely out of a setup but you will likely lose some driveability but that's about it.

Even if I go with the kelfords and regret not getting the S2's later at this point I'm not afraid to just swap them in next spring or whenever. The head will be set with strong valvesprings and while doing cams is more of a pita on the 4b11t but it's not any worse than doing cams/timing belt at the same time on a 4G63

**Kracka** · 11-09-2010

Cobb uses only Kelfords on their X builds too.

polishmafia · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

The chunk of ring must have had its way with this thing like Hotdog on Murlo.

**mlomker** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

I need to verify the rev limit of them on a 'bigger' set of cams.

I couldn't get a straight answer out of Cosworth even when used with their MX1s. I guess they don't want the liability of making any recommendations. They forwarded me the spec sheets.

**scheides** · 11-09-2010

Lame. That makes me lean towards the supertechs even more then. Too bad kelford and GSC's beehive's are on backorder too, they are good to 9000rpm with their cams.

Damn am I really building my motor? And talking about revving it to 9k? Good god what's wrong with me. I'm getting excited for mega wide powerband though

**Murlo26** · 11-09-2010

I'd go with the supertechs if I were you, they were still pretty reasonable, I think like 300ish if I remember.

Then you will be set regardless of cams and I can verify they work out to 9k

**mlomker** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by scheides

Good god what's wrong with me.

Your fmic sale thread hinted that you might be thinking about a larger turbo?

**Murlo26** · 11-09-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlomker

Your fmic sale thread hinted that you might be thinking about a larger turbo?

LOL, i seriously thought the exact same thing. I was going to post in that thread and ask but I didn't want to get hated on again for clouding up FS threads...

Out with it Scheides! You are doing the CBRD BBX-B aren't you? Arent you?!?!?

**scheides** · 11-09-2010

Haha, no crazy turbos just yet sorry guys

Just gonna see what this standard BBX will do on a full setup for pump gas! Down the road, who knows

So I stopped by MAP over lunch today; they were concerned that the stock sleeeves would get too thin with boring....I can't remember anyone else running into problems with a simple .020" overbore but I saw the 4b11t in a whole new way today. Look at this pic. The block is aluminum. The sleeves are steel/iron/magic......tell me where one ends and the other begins:

(also, enjoy this awesome pic of turbotalon1g)

Crazy eh? From the bottom there is a very small lip that looks like part of the sleve, not like a huge sleeve that got inserted from the bottom.

More pics? I love pics. Only thing that keeps me going some days. torque plate is in, crank and everything else look happy as a clam.

I get all sorts of crazy ideas in my head when I go and visit MAP or DB or RS....I'm glad I just made simple decisions and am pushing forward with a nice basic 2.0 build. The block is decked, and boring comes next to fit in these puppies:

Sooo light. Standard JE's, .5mm/.020" over, the block will get bored today/tomorrow and the pistons fit this week. The fancy rods are on their way. I am impressed with the progress.