11-02-2006
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#41
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Admin
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sportsman's Paradise, LA.
Posts: 5,382
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalonFiero
Mike what are you saying? Shane, Cher, Mo, and myself all overlaid a stock 2.4 cam gear on top of a stock 2.0 cam gear and remarked the timing marks. Pretty simple and widely done, back when I did the 2.4 swap I don't think there were 2.4 cam gears available other than stock.
Jim
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The point you are missing is "Why are they different?"
They are different because the 2.4L belt is longer by one (1) more tooth to compensate for the taller (6mm) deck height of the 2.4L block. Not an even number such as 2 (two) teeth. All remarking the gear does is get you close, but the cams are still off by 1/2 tooth which equals 3-4 deg of timing. If the gears were stamped the same and marked the same they would line up the same, but they don't. That's why Mitsu makes a different gear for the 2.4L. Lining up the marks as close as possible still has the cam dowl pin out of position which is what times the cams.
I has to use Fidanza gears to get the adjustablility to correct the timing. When I degreed my cams (HKS 272's) in both were off by 3-4 deg because of the longer belt. I just remarked the cam gears..
__________________
"You don't have a clue. You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance."
When she get's bitchy, SPANK THAT ASS! (#Y#)
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11-02-2006
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#42
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Reynolds number user
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: grove/tempe
Posts: 3,553
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Good explanation. But the fact remains that they made power with remarked stockers, and more importantly i'm out of money!
__________________
07 Ducati Monster S4R
00 honda elite 50 (64 mph braH!)
05 malaguti F15
04 E55 AMG
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11-02-2006
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#43
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moonshine power
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
I wonder how off mine are then if the exhaust is an actual 2.4 gear and the intake is a remarked 2.0 gear?
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11-02-2006
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#44
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AWD4G64
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Shoreview, MN
Posts: 2,286
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
I am getting aftermarket adjustable cams(I dont care what the cost diffference is!). Do I need to remark them and then add 3-4 degrees?
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11-03-2006
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#45
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..
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mondovi, Wi
Posts: 1,326
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blageo23
I am getting aftermarket adjustable cams(I dont care what the cost diffference is!). Do I need to remark them and then add 3-4 degrees?
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Just degree your cams so you are safe. Dont just make an adjustment based off the one tooth difference.
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11-03-2006
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#46
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Reynolds number user
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: grove/tempe
Posts: 3,553
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Degreeing is too much work. How about when you dyno you play around with them and get some hard numbers. Less work and instant results.
__________________
07 Ducati Monster S4R
00 honda elite 50 (64 mph braH!)
05 malaguti F15
04 E55 AMG
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11-03-2006
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#47
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back in the saddle again
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!
Degreeing is too much work. How about when you dyno you play around with them and get some hard numbers. Less work and instant results.
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That is a great idea until your pistons and valves do a slow dance.
Dyno time isn't cheap, I"d degree the cams.
Floppy, is someone posting on your computer?
Most off the shelf grinds are just fine and close to perfect at 0,0 for a dsm.
__________________
My street car runs low 11's and my race car's personal best is a mid 11....
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11-03-2006
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#48
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aka Goodbye
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by niterydr
Most off the shelf grinds are just fine and close to perfect at 0,0 for a dsm.
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That's the case now, but if someone's buying used cams from a few years back, the Crowers and some others were way off from the card. And that goes out the window for the 2.4's, or any motor that's been decked.
__________________
2009 Corvette Z51-SOLD
1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX-SOLD
2013 BMW Z4-Current summer hooptie
2017 GMC Yukon-Current winter hooptie
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11-03-2006
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#49
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back in the saddle again
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Blower
That's the case now, but if someone's buying used cams from a few years back, the Crowers and some others were way off from the card. And that goes out the window for the 2.4's, or any motor that's been decked.
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Well of course. That is why we degree cams on all the longblocks we put together, and tune all of our personal cars on the rollers with cam gears.
(yes my cam gears are adjusted, they aren't there for looks).
__________________
My street car runs low 11's and my race car's personal best is a mid 11....
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11-03-2006
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#50
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aka Goodbye
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
I was too lazy to degree my cams and just picked up some stocker 2.4 gears for the meantime. $50 in cam gears is just one less night out on the town, which ain't a bad thing anymore.
__________________
2009 Corvette Z51-SOLD
1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX-SOLD
2013 BMW Z4-Current summer hooptie
2017 GMC Yukon-Current winter hooptie
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11-04-2006
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#51
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back in the saddle again
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Blower
I was too lazy to degree my cams and just picked up some stocker 2.4 gears for the meantime. $50 in cam gears is just one less night out on the town, which ain't a bad thing anymore.
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Heck yeah. It was a cheap solution and your car does make power. Now you know when you want to, you can go back to that aspect of your build and pick up the power that was potential left on the table.
__________________
My street car runs low 11's and my race car's personal best is a mid 11....
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11-04-2006
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#52
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Reynolds number user
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: grove/tempe
Posts: 3,553
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Hey on the subject of engine building, what kind of piston to wall clearances do you guys run?
I talked to a lot of people and was told a range of things, so i pretty much averaged them and went with .004"
__________________
07 Ducati Monster S4R
00 honda elite 50 (64 mph braH!)
05 malaguti F15
04 E55 AMG
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11-04-2006
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#53
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Admin
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sportsman's Paradise, LA.
Posts: 5,382
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Bleeder!!
Hey on the subject of engine building, what kind of piston to wall clearances do you guys run?
I talked to a lot of people and was told a range of things, so i pretty much averaged them and went with .004"
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Run the loose side of what the piston manufacturer says.
__________________
"You don't have a clue. You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance."
When she get's bitchy, SPANK THAT ASS! (#Y#)
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11-04-2006
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#54
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Is funding Exxon.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ham Lake
Drives: like a bat outta hell!
Posts: 7,983
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
I went .0035" on Wiseco's. They don't expand as much as most do.
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Is burning corn and stayin' warm!
My motorcycle is stock and reliable, my Talon is neither!
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11-05-2006
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#55
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Reynolds number user
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: grove/tempe
Posts: 3,553
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
I should have said what pistons i have; and those would be Wisecos as well.
__________________
07 Ducati Monster S4R
00 honda elite 50 (64 mph braH!)
05 malaguti F15
04 E55 AMG
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11-06-2006
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#56
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15min late to the world
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Re: Engine Building-What Products?
.004 will be fine for a wiseco, this depends on piston type and what is planned for the motor.
~John
__________________
Moon taxi: 9.45@156.9 mph 41psi 2011... Letting people down sense 2012.
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