Questing about crankwalk and my clutch system

Onefast99gsx · 01-16-2005

Hello.

I don't really know much about crankwalk nor do i ever want to. I have a '99 GSX with about 80,000 miles on it. It's got a Fidanza flywheel and a ACT 2600 clutch. Can you tell me if my symptoms point to crankwalk. If not, what does the problem i describe seem like?

I got the car in late August from a respectable person. He told me up front that the tranny would need synchros so i just planned on doing over the winter. From about the point when i got it, it seemed to engage almost right off the floor, probably 1/2" or less even. That made if difficult when shifting. Often for 1st and reverse, you'd be better off shutting the car off and shifting to your gear and restarting the car up.

I got down under the dash and adjusted the master cylinder rod according to a vfaq. It does not take much at all. I would adjust it about a 1/4 turn out, retighten the nut.... So then it would be fine. It was disengage about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2" off the floor or about where it should be at. Well then after driving the car for 20 to 30 minutes the clutch would disengage WAY off the floor almost to the pedals idle position when your foot isn't on it. This would cause the clutch to slip very badly. So then you'd get under the dash, loosen the nut and turn the rod back in 1/4 turn so it engaged at around the stock position. Well then after the car sat for awhile unrun, it would engage off the floor again. This whole process would loop time after time. I rebled the system numerous times. I have the tranny out now. The flywheel, pressure plate and clutch disk all appear to be fine as i figured they would be. The clutch fork is also fine appearing. I figured that if it were any of the 4 things i just mentioned that it would do it ALL the time. Last night i took the slave cylinder all apart and showed it to a friend that's a mechanic. He didn't see anything out of the ordinary. The seal and piston looked good. Today I took out the master cylinder and took it apart. I really don't know how to tell if its bad or not. There is a rubber seal on each end of the pistona and they are both in tact.

Can someone please help me on what they think the problem might be? I would hugely appreciate it.

I show really no signs of crankwalk like the pedal sticking on a left turn or clicking noises, etc... However when my clutch is disengaging right off the floor i tend to have to take the tip of my foot to bring to pedal back in its idle position.

Thanks for ANY help!!!

AJ · 01-16-2005

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/w...crankshaft.htm

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm

http://www.prostreetonline.com/pso/p...sp?articleid=5

Justa few good reads with info.

Onefast99gsx · 01-16-2005

Shit! According to some of that reading. I might have Crankwalk. I have the tranny completely out. I had a ticking sound before i parked it but i ran a can of the Mopar combustion cleaner thought the throttle body and the ticking went away. Is there any way i can check for crankwalk while the car is up on jackstands?

Thanks.

john · 01-16-2005

Measure the crank endplay with a dial indicator. That is about the only way t check. QPR can do it and Elite may also be able to.

Onefast99gsx · 01-16-2005

I have a dial indictator at our shop here. So i would basically take like a crow bar and go between the block and the flywheel and check for any variance in the dial indicator. Correct???

Onefast99gsx · 01-16-2005

I know this isn't the wanted sections.... but does anyone have a 6 bolt for sale just in case? I would want the complete head and block.

Thanks!

**1ViciousGSX** · 01-16-2005

It sounds to me like you never really got the clutch rod into adjustment correctly. 2g's will get a "ghost" pedal and pump up if the rod is too tight or the clutch/cruise switch is out of adjusment at the top.

Onefast99gsx · 01-16-2005

Thanks for your input 1Vicious--- I can agree with you there. I never used a "proper" tool or method to adjust the clutch rod. When i sensed a problem, i would just loosen the nut and then turn the rod in or out about 1/4 turn.

I'll be heading home soon with the dial indicator to check for play. I pray! I just don't need this right now. I spend most my money on mods.

Can someone answer this. Let say i check and find out i do have CW. Can you take the engine apart and put in new crank bearings and it will be fine for awhile or does it physically ruin the block, crank and crank cradle? If i do have CW, i would like to do a 'get by' fix until late this year.

Thanks again!

**1ViciousGSX** · 01-16-2005

From what I've seen, if it has crank walk, junk it. I haven't heard of anybody having success with a cankwalk repair.

Hopefully that won't be the case. If it is, I do have my old '99 7-bolt sitting around. 58k on it. No signs of crankwalk.

Onefast99gsx · 01-16-2005

UPDATE: If got home and mounted the dial indicator on a magnetic surface. I put the needle on the outter most area of the replaceable section of the fidanza flywheel. I used a crow bar type tool and pryed between the back of the flywheel and the black. I would have been in a sense pulled the flywheel towards the passenger side of the car. I physically could not make the needle move any more than .002 to .004" at most. I think those readers derived from mostly flexing of the flywheel from pulling on it so hard with the crow bar. Now i did not try moving the crank towards the driver side of the car. Not sure how i could do that unless you pry between the block and the crankshaft pulley. If that's the case i'd need a 2nd person on hand to watch the needle while i pry on it.

You think things are looking good so far????

1Vicious- I hope i don't need that 7bolt block, but if i do, i will be calling upon you.

Thanks again.

john · 01-17-2005

I believe you have to pry on the crank pully (drivers side of the motor). You can do the ghetto fix if you want but you are just delaying the problem. I also haven't heard of a successful CW fix. I believe there is a fix idea on vfaq.

Onefast99gsx · 01-17-2005

ANOTHER UPDATE: Last night again i did both sides this test. I put the dial indicator on the outter lip of the crankshaft pulley. I pryed between the pulley and i guess what would be the plastic timing belt cover. I used the vfaq on this. I absolutely could not get it to go any more than .003-.005 of movement. I would like to add to that, that this appeared to be only stressed movement of the outer part of the pulley itself from prying on it. I put the dial indicator on the inner part of the crankshaft pulley on what be the balancer portion and did the same pry test. At best i got .001-.002 of movement. In all tests whether it be the flywheel side or the pulley side, i pryed as if i wanted to make it move. I have the Mitsubishi 3 volume shop manuals. Normal specs go all the way to .0071 of end movement. Then there is a tolerance level beyond that.

If it had crankwalk, would the crank be able move(crankwalk endplay) all the time whether the be car old or warm?

Thanks!

Raptor · 01-17-2005

It doesn't sound like CW is your issue, even when they are only .007-.009" out, they look like you moved them an inch and it is pretty obvious. I wouldn't worry about that, just find out what is wrong with your clutch engagement, maybe a bent fork or similar.

**1ViciousGSX** · 01-17-2005

It sounds to me like you are OK on the crankwalk issue.

Put it back together and get that clutch adjusted correctly.

Onefast99gsx · 01-17-2005

Thanks you two. I'm feeling a little better about it today. I should point out that the clutch disk is severely worn, almost down to the rivets. There are 2 springs across from each other on the clutch disk. They rotate around very easily and have pretty good sized indentations on them about 1/8" or less wide and about 1/16" deep(not sure from what). Perhaps the pressure plate 'fingers' I'm not sure what those 2 springs purposes are.

I don't know if a bad clutch disk would change engagement points but i thought i'd add it in. I would also like to add that i don't necessarily have a floating disengagement point. If it disengages right off the floor and i change the rod setting, 20 minutes later or so it will engage way off the floor. It will not go back to right off the floor until i dink with the rod again. I guess it's somewhat floating but it doesn't change based on left turns, right turns, clutch use, etc...

Well i am going to put a rebuilt kit in the master AND slave cylinders. Also put a new clutch in. Maybe i'll go with something other than the ACT2600. Do either of you recommend anything besides ACT?

Thanks!

Raptor · 01-17-2005

Southbend, especially if you are running a 7 bolt. Less pressure and still retains the grip. Less money as well. If you havn't already done it, disconnect your clutch safety switch.

Onefast99gsx · 01-17-2005

Rator- sent you a PM. Interested in the SouthBend.

s1ngletracker · 10-19-2005

did you ever find a solution to this? this is exactly the problem i'm having.

Onefast99gsx · 10-19-2005

It was just the clutch master cylinder that was shot. I sent you a PM back. How I found it was because of this article in the link below. It's called 2g pedal "pump up". It's the exact symptoms that I was having. Scroll down towards the bottom of the link.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/c...ywheeltech.htm

clean2g · 10-21-2005

To: Onefast99gsx

Was your clutch pedal really hard near the floor and felt like something was under too much tension, and every time you adjusted it, it wouldn't really do anything? I think I have the same problem but I'm not sure, I've tried to adjust it but I don't know if I'm doing it right because nothing changes really after I make an adjustment.