Starting problem - Page 2

x-pride · 01-27-2006

Is your car throwing any CEL?

**Halon** · 01-27-2006

Nope. But Im sure it will here shortly due to the emissins being removed. The battery was dead, so it reset the CEL, but it will be back!

**Halon** · 01-27-2006

Here's a snapshot of the new FPR! I just need to get a gauge for it now!

**Halon** · 01-27-2006

OK well after doing more reading, I am thinking I need to make sure I have the correct fuel pressure, and to do this I need a FP guage on that FPR. So that is going to be my next step!

**Halon** · 01-29-2006

OK now I'm reading the vfaq on how to pressurize the fuel system. It says to put 12V to the terminal on the Fuel Pump Check terminal. Here is the picture they show.

Is this the same terminal you ground out to set the idle? I can't really tell from the pic, but the only plug down there that I know of is that one for setting idle/base timing.

**Kracka** · 01-29-2006

If you have the Pocketlogger software you can do it right from there.

A//// Guy · 01-29-2006

^^ Yea that is the easiest as you can hear the pump running. Otherwise just turn the key the On poition and then off, repeat that a few times until pressure is built up and it should start right up.

**Halon** · 01-29-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by S2kracka

If you have the Pocketlogger software you can do it right from there.

I didn't even think of that, thanx!

**Halon** · 01-30-2006

OK well I went to TNT today right here by my house and picked up a FP Gauge. I set the base pressure to about 37 with the vacuum hose unhooked. Here is what I've noticed so far, and also a few questions.

First, is the pump supposed to kick on and build up pressure when you just turn the key to the ON possition? Mine doesn't. But once I start cranking it over, the pressure seems to be up there by 30. I can't tell perfectly because I am in my car and the guage is under the hood. The car still struggles doesn't want to start, but sometimes it eventually does after trying for a few minutes.

Now when I shut it off after it's running, the fuel pressure immediately drops down to maybe like 25, and then slowly bleeds off to 0 after about 1-2 minutes. Is this normal?

Also, I did like what Hughes said, and used my logger to turn on the fuel pump. When I turn it on, the pressure jumps right up to 37 and stays there until the logger stops the test and the pump shuts off. As soon as the pump shuts off, the pressure starts to bleed off, and is at 0 in about 1-2 minutes. Again, is this normal? Am I loosing pressure somewhere or is this normal?

I went back by the fuel pump, and removed that trunk cover plate. I noticed some fuel around the fitting where the fuel pump/tank cover hard line connects to the rubber fuel line. I then loosened that connection, put some teflon tape on the thread, and tightened it nice and tight. I turned the pump on some more, and didn't notice any more leaks. I thought maybe this was where the pressure was leaking, but the car is still doing the same thing when I try to start it.

Over the last week I've been doing a lot of researching trying to figure out my starting problem, and as you can probably tell, I am thinking it has something to do with my fuel pressure being low. So to kinda of test this theory a little, what I did was grab my logger, turn the fuel pump on so that it built the 37psi, and then once the test was over, I immediately attempted to start the car. It started up right away like a champ! Hasn't started that nice in a long time.

I am thinking that right there is telling me that it is in fact a fuel pressure problem. Am I right thinking this? I have heard that the Walbro O-Rings tend to tear. I removed the fuel pump, and the O-ring was real nice and snug in there, in face it stayed in there when I removed the pump. I then got the O-Ring out and it looks like it is in great shape. I don't think any pressure was leaking past that thing, but tomorrow I am going to go pick up a new one because it's so cheap anyways.

Does anyone have any insight into this? Any idea why my pressure is dropping off like that? I'm thinking it probably did this with my stock FPR as well considering I had this same problem with my stock one. So I wouldn't think it's the FPR. Anyhow, any insight would be greatly appreciated.

A//// Guy · 01-30-2006

Yes the remaining pressure that is in the system when you turn the car off drains back to the tank. Unless the stock FPR only releases fuel back to the tank if its at X amount. Im not sure how your aftermarket unit works. I wouldnt think the pressure would drop totally to 0 but it might not be strong enough to move the guage?

**Kracka** · 01-30-2006

Have you checked all the injector seals and the O-ring going into the fuel rail?

**Halon** · 01-30-2006

No, but I will! Now when I'm checking them, am I just looking for an obvious rip, or whatelse should I be looking at exactly? That TNT place has all sorts of O-Rings, so I suppose I will just replace the O-Ring going into the fuel rail, as well as the one at the pump since he should have them, and they probably cost next to nothing.

But Peter, you're saying it is normal for my pressure to be dropping like that? So if that's the case, then apparently that pressure drop off is normal?

Again, is my fuel pump supposed to turn on and build pressure when I turn the key just to the ON possition? should it be building up the pressure right then and there before I begin cranking it over?

**Kracka** · 01-30-2006

Yes, when you turn your key to the "ON" position, it charges your fuel system and get it up to preasure (the pump only runs for a split second). When you begin cranking the engine the pump will of course be on too. Once the car is running, does it stay running? If I were you I'd replace the O-ring going into the fuel rail and the O-ring on each injector top (might as well do the donuts going into the head too). If that TNT place of yours doesn't have any, the Mitsu dealership will.

**Halon** · 01-30-2006

Yes it stays on. Once it starts, it idles just fine, and I can go drive it around too. Sometimes when I am attempting to start it, it will barely start, be all lumpidy and die within a couple seconds. But when I turned on the pump with the logger, and then turned the key when it was pressurized, it started just beautifully.

And when I turn my key, the system does not pressurize. The guage does not move at all.

So if this is the case, what would be stopping this from taking place. The ECU? The FP Relay?

And I will replace those rings as well. Thanks playa!

A//// Guy · 01-30-2006

I had a similar issue with my old car and it was the ECU, the car would start up great sometime sn and then die others, I thought you replaced your caps though.

I would think most of the pressure is supposed to go down and release the gas back to the tank, but I didnt think it would depressurize down to 0. Although when Ive worked on fuel systems and taken the injector out of the rail it doesnt spray fuel everywhere, so there must be 0 pressure or close to it, otherwise when you take the rail off or pull an injector out it would spray everywhere.

**Halon** · 01-31-2006

The ECU I got off Jet in the summer. They said it was rebuilt by LightningGSX. I'm not sure how long ago though. I am still going to replace those O-Rings tonight, but then if that doesn't do a thing, I will remove the ECU and see if I can get it checked out by someone.

**Halon** · 01-31-2006

OK well I posted up this question on tuners last night too, in hopes that some of the more intelligent ones there could give me any useful info.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213288
Steve on there said that 1g's do NOT pressurize the system when you turn to the ON position, only when you turn it to the STARTposition. So it sounds like that is exactly how my car is working. I am still going to replace those rings though, and I think my next step will be the ECU.

**Halon** · 02-01-2006

OK well i changed out the fuel pump and fuel rail feed O Rings. They changed nothing.

BUT...

Something did change. Before I even tried to start the car, I turned on the logger, and I couldn't get a read on anything. I also could not test anything, like when I'd try and turn on the fuel pump to build up pressure, nothing would happen. It's like the logger would not communicate with the ECU. Hmmm.... Then a little later after I cranked it over a few times and nothing happened, the solonoids on the firewall (FP, EGR...) started clicking like crazy.

I'm back to thinking I have an issue with my ECU. I am boxing it up and shipping it to STEVE off DSMTuners. I PMed LighteningGSX, but heard nothing back. So I will end up shipping it to Steve.

**Halon** · 02-11-2006

Well just thought I'd update this. I received an email back from Steve today. Apparently the ECU had a list of problems, and he will be repairing them and send the ECU out on Monday. That's kind of a relief I suppose, because hopefully those are what was causing my problems. I'll post up once I get it back. Hopefully she'll start right up!!

A//// Guy · 02-11-2006

Nice, I had a feeling that sounded exactly like my old symptoms.