Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

So first off I must say that my evo has been the most reliable turbo awd mitsubishi I've ever owned. And the most powerful...not insane power, but 300+whp for daily use is just endless fun.

About 3 weeks ago I pulled into my work parking lot and the temp gauge went way high, almost to gauge max. It quickly went back down, but I could not help but wonder wtf the deal was! I got home and discovered that the coolant was low. The car was just rolling over 60k miles, and I had plans to do the timing belt with the water pump anyways, so I ordered all the parts and decided to get that out of the way before I jumped to too many conclusions. I found a TSB for 05 Evos regarding premature water pump failure, so this just backed up me doing the water pump sooner than later.

After some leaky water pump issues, I got the car running good and not loosing any coolant with gentle driving and light boost. I had turned down the boost, timing, and richened up the tune to keep things gentle on the car. After some WOT testing, I suspected coolant being lost still but thought maybe I had overfilled it, had air bubbles, blah blah blah, I made lots of excuses to tear my mind away from the obvious.

I did a compression test: 182 175 180 175.

I changed the thermostat. I changed the radiator cap. Still, no matter what I've done, if I boost the car, coolant finds its way out of the overflow bottle. The cap even blew off a few times, but it turns out I had accidently folded the rubber seal over a bit on the cap, which I think led to this.

I turned the boost back up. The car rips as normal, full power is about 380whp (dyno dynamics) on my E85 tune and the car drives perfectly. However, when I park the car and let it cool, coolant is low....obviously low. Probably filled it with about a 20 oz bottle several times. So, I turned the boost back down.

I did a leak-down test. Not really looking for results form the gauge, just mostly looking for bubbles or movement in the coolant. I'm guessing the 100psi (gauge max) I put on the cylinder is not enough to simulate cylinder pressure under boost, as I saw nothing.

I talked to shane @ DB through all of this, and he was very helpful in giving me ideas of stuff to try, but in the end he advised that when cars have symptoms like this that are not diagnosable with regular tests, that a headgasket or warped head are to blame.

The car has overheated a few times. At about 25k miles, 2 years ago, I blew out the freeze plug from the water pump, which promptly pumped out all of the coolant. I got the car over to the side of the road fairly quickly, found the freeze plug and tapped it back in, and drove it ever since. I had Shane @ DB install a set of arp head studs 1x1 method when he was putting in my cams.

Also, last winter my crank pulley got ripped off by a chunk of ice on the freeway. I tried to limp the car back to my house, but realized shortly therafter that the acc belt ran the water pump. The car got a little hot then too.

So anyways, just looking for feedback, anyone with any ideas of what I could try before pulling the head off. I have some other plans, but I'll fill you in on those later.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Before you pull the head off, you should pull the valve cover off. Just do it and be done.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

I'm going to guess its the head gasket too :(

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Sorry to say but it indeed does sound like a headgasket. I had the same symptoms with my 1g after 1x1 arp install. Didn't really show up til I started tuning more aggressively also. Either way a headgasket isn't all that hard. Just think of it as a time to upgrade!

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

There is a chemical test to check for headgasket leaks. Very accurate and simple, a solution goes into a tube, any gases leaked from the combustion chamber into the coolant react with the solution and cause an obvious color change. You can also sniff for hydrocarbons in the overflow bottle, but you need an exhaust gas analyzer.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Where can I get one of those coolant test kits?

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

I had the exact same thing last fall, no signs of it on a compression test, just low coolant and some white smoke. New gasket fixed it right up.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Sorry to hear, but everything is pointing to a HG.
Also the car would be reliable if its only a few years old.
Hell my has been reliable for the last few years with a 160k stock bottom end heavily street raced and tracked.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Ok, thanks for the advice guys. Now onto the yummy details! As a good DSM'er, I can't well pull my car apart and not find a way to put a little more juice in it! I want to be certain the head isn't warped, so I'm sending it to John Gosh to get checked out. I goobered up one of the bolt-holes for the intake manifold when I had it out so that will get heli-coiled. I'm also going to get a new set of valve springs to get installed, and a little hotter set of cams than I have now to up the ante a bit.

I've LOVED my HKS 280's, but after 30k miles with them I'm ready to try something else, so they are officially FOR SALE! $450 obo!

The new springs will be a basic upgrade, no dual spring titanium retainer setup for me. The cams will be streetable and powerful, proven to make power on a stock, unported head.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Probably Napa or other similar auto store.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Let me get this straight, my old POS DSM is more reliable than Scheide's EVO? Say it ain't so. :rollinglaugh:

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Steve, I put more miles and WOT pulls on this thing in a month than your 1G sees in a year and you know it! :D

Q: when I pull the head, should I remove the headstuds or leave them in? Would it be wise to pull them before re-installing?

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

taking them out will make dropping the head on easier, I'd think.

And I have to say, if this is your most reliable car, I can't imagine what you'd been driving before (i know, a 2g, but still).

Modded cars have a shorter life span than stock/unmolested ones.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Shitty. If you need help getting it apart let me know

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Leave the headstuds in, that way the head is lined up perfectly and you'll have less chance of smearing your copper spray around and getting a good seal.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Thanks for the advice Steve!

Mark, I will have Anna make you dinner if you come help me, that includes free puppy-sitting too! ;) I'm thinking about tearing it apart Thursday after work. Sounds like all of the stuff I've ordered should be in by then.

here's what I got on order:
Kelford 272 cams (I/E)
Duration @0.1mm: 272/272
lift: 11.0mm/11.0mm
duration @1mm:226/226
centerline @ full lift: 107/113

Compared to my 'old' HKS 280's (sniff, love these things!)
HKS 280
Advertised Duration - 280 deg
Effective Duration - 222 deg @ 1mm
Lift - 10.8mm Int / 10.2mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 110 deg Int / 110 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg
Stock valve springs OK

And compared to stock:
Factory EVO
Advertised Duration - 260 deg Int / 256 deg Exh
Effective Duration - ___ deg @ 1mm Int / ___ deg @1mm Exh
Lift - 10.0mm Int / 9.5mm Exh
Lobe Centerlines - 109 deg Int /111 deg Exh
LSA - 110 deg

Also a set of GSC's 5039 springs:
The GSC Beehive spring is a factory replacement and will use your stock OEM retainer and Valve Seat to ensure an easy install.

Spring Pressures :
Seat @ 1.56"=68 lbs / .300"=160lbs / .400"=190lbs / .450"=210lbs / .625"= Coil bind.

*Max lift on stock Retainer is 11.4mm at the valve or .259" cam lobe lift.*

:D :D :D

So ya, that and an oem headgasket from Brookdale and we're in business! I have some small side projects in mind, but nothing major. I'll take pics as things progress. Wish me luck!

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

good choice on cams :D

hopefully the HG should seal everything up for ya!

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Dang dsms... :D Modded cars I tell ya.. Hope the headgasket fixes it up!

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

I may be able to come over thursday or friday after I get off work and lend a hand if you need.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Holy shit, just got word from MAP that my springs are in already, I JUST ordered them YESTERDAY. Mad props to MAP!

Looks like I'll start pulling stuff apart tonight...anyone wanna help?

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

if i didn't just get home I'd come help you

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

hmm, I just started cooking my dinner, abd by the time I get done, it'll probably be too late. Working early in the morning sucks ass... :(

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Thanks for the offers guys! I actually made a lot of progress on my own last night:
-stopped by MAP and picked up my Kelford 272's and GSC springs *TWO* days early!
-removed strut tower bar
-unhooked all catch can/kracka vent plumbing
-unhooked/untangled all wiring
-unbolted fuel rail/injectors
-removed spark plugs
-drained coolant
-set TDC
-valvecover off
-broke cam gear bolts loose
-zip tied tbelt to gears and strung it up to my old hood prop
-unhooked all coolant lines
-unhooked upper IC pipe and got everything else out of the way

So ya, ready to unbolt cams and headstud bolts and get that mutha off of there! I got home late from work (about 7pm, don't say that's not 'that' late cause I worked a 17 hour 'shift' on the day before!) so I did not get it all the way off. :( Called it quits around 10pm, just too much other stuff going on to keep going.

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo8/IMG_0449.sized.jpg

Also, I'm getting a few points of advice:
-Leave headstuds in, clean with brake cleaner and shop towels till its so clean I can eat off of it.
-Remove headstuds, use fine sand paper to *lightly* clean the surface of the block, then brake cleaner and shop towels till its clean.

Any votes yay/nay the sandpaper? I imagine it's only necessary if there's a lot of gunk on the block, and even then it should be light light lightly used.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

I would say use a shop vac before wiping with a towel and brake cleaner to get the majority of the metal dust flakes off. That's the last thing you want in this engine! and good progress. now with having zip tied the timing belt to the cam gears are you hoping to hot have to redo the alignment or whats up with that?

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

unbolt cam gears from cams, then pull head and leave all other timing stuff untouched. I just did the timing belt twice, I don't really want to do it a third time. ;)

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

If you can get all the old gasket stuff off the block without sandpaper or razor blades or what have you, then do that. You could even maybe use adhesive remover soaked into a rag/towel to loosen up left over gasket stuff, that last part was a guess, I've never done it before, but hey, might work. I have used a razor though, and you just have to be careful.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

It is an iron block, scrape away with a razor blade. Carb cleaner works good for removing copper spray.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Is it possible to put a MIVEC head on an Evo8? I know they wouldn't have the wiring or anything, just wondering if the block is the same or if there are any extra oil passages added. Crank pickups the same? Just a thought...

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Good progress Scheides, I should be able to come help tomorrow night if you're gonna be working on it

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

I would just take the timing belt and gears off, make it a lot easier IMO to get everything put back together and get yourself a little more room to work. You aren't that much away from taking it completely off.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

When I did mine I used carb cleaner and scotch brite pads. They worked great.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

I think its possible, there might be one extra cooling passage that is bigger on the IX block though.

Kewl, come over around 7, we'll be rockin.

Like I said, just got done doing this twice, not pumped about doing it again. If I have to, I will.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

The new goodies! Kelford 272 cams and GSC 5039 Beehive springs
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8835.sized.jpg

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8836.sized.jpg

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8837.sized.jpg

And, here's our problem spot:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8841.sized.jpg

http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8844.sized.jpg

Head looks good! Taking it in for a cleaning and checkup anyways
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8845.sized.jpg

And bottom end looks happy too. I could not have imagined how much cleaning is needed on the top of the block though...gonna take a while
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8850.sized.jpg

Cyl walls look happy for putting down decent power for 30-40k HARD miles:
http://www.scheides.com/albums/evo-k...8848.sized.jpg
Head goes to Gosh tomorrow...

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

cleaning the block surface suuuuuuuuuuuuucks

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

For sure dude, I had no idea it was gonna be such a biotch :(

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Composite gaskets are easier to clean up after, MLS's are a bitch.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Yeah, I'd take out the headstuds and the two guides, clean up the surface, then put them back in before dropping the head back on. I can't believe how much the heads are similar to the 1G on the combustion side. I thought they'd be totally different for some reason.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

We did end up taking the headstuds out to make things easier.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

I thought it was the other way around? At least in my cases it has been composites are bitches to clean up. My MLS on my talon was a piece of cake to clean.

Was gonna say you probably should to make life easy haha. It's not like it's tough to take them out anyways.

Re: Head Games: pushing coolant and then...
 

Just hose it down and throw it back together. :D haha jk

Good luck on the install dude!