ENEOS oil: power adder or snake oil? - Page 2

**Halon** · 03-01-2008

I was going to write the whole lawsuit thing in my own words, but found it easier to just copy and paste this directly from the AMSOIL site.

Several years ago Mobil accused Castrol Syntec of reformulating its synthetic by substituting other basestocks in place of its synthetic polyaphaolefins (PAO's) using hydroprocessing oil. Castrol has replaced the PAO synthetic base stock with hydroisomerized petroleum base stock. Hydrocracking, as it's called, is the highest level of petroleum refining. Castrol Syntec is not a Group 4 synthetic (such as AMSOIL is) yet Castrol ended up winning the battle when the National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled that Castrol could still market its oil as "synthetic" despite their new formulation. Basically, they expanded the definition of synthetics to include Group 3 hydroprocessed petroleum oil. This high profile case took place because synthetics are recognized as the market's best hope for growth. Synthetic oil sales have outpaced petroleum oil sales by a wide margin and the gap continues to widen every year. Consumers are getting smarter and demand the best for their vehicles. Read the full story on the Castrol issue in our informative articles section. Additionally, just as soon as Castrol won this battle, several other oil companies came up with hydroprocessed motor oils of their own and labeled these products to be "100% synthetic", when they still are Group 3 hydroprocessed petroleum oils and not full PAO Group 4 synthetics.

So in a nutshell, Mobil was pissed because they were using a Group 4 synthetic base in their synthetic line, while Castrol was simply using a Group 3 highly refined petroleum base oil in their synthetic line. Castrol won, so now a lot of the off the shelf synthetics you'll find at the store are now using Group 3 base oils as well.

TheBlizzard · 03-01-2008

I switched over to Amsoil; I use it for my cars, snowmobiles, 4 wheeler, snowblower, ect. Their 2 cycle injector oil is some good shit; it never fouls a plug or even blows smoke for that matter. Using they synthetic in my car I could definetly tell the difference on longevity and gas mileage. Hughes you have probably heard of this stuff, since the company is located in Superior Wisconsin. Its not cheap but who cares.

**v8klla** · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

Castrol Syntec is not a Group 4 synthetic (such as AMSOIL is)

Is there such a thing as a group 5 synthetic? If so I believe that is the classification of this Eneos oil...

Chris

**Halon** · 03-01-2008

Yest there is. It pretty much just means it also uses a synthetic base oil other that PAO's which are what Group 4's are. I honestly do not know the advantages or disadvantages between the 2.

Here this is also taken directly from Amsoil's site.
Group IV are polyalphaolefins (PAO) which are chemically engineered
synthesized base stocks. PAOs offer excellent stability and molecular
uniformity and hence improve performance. Products labeled as "100%
Synthetic" use only Group IV base stocks and therefore are free of
petroleum oil and the impurities they contain. AMSOIL uses only Group IV
base stocks and is thus a 100% Synthetic motor oil.

Group V base oils, with few exceptions, are also chemically engineered stocks
that do not fall into any of the categories previously mentioned. Typical
examples of group V stocks are Esters, polyglycols and silicone. As with group
IV stocks, group V tend to offer performance advantages over groups I - III.
An example of a mineral based group V exception would be a white oil.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 03-01-2008

$.99 non-syn FTW!

**v8klla** · 03-01-2008

and a Napa Gold oil filter right

blageo23 · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8klla

and a Napa Gold oil filter right

No way, Fram oil filter FTW

**Goat Blower** · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlizzard

Hughes you have probably heard of this stuff, since the company is located in Superior Wisconsin. Its not cheap but who cares.

My wife or ex-wife, can't remember, was friends in high school with the owner's kids. I think their name is Amatuzzio or something like that.

**JET** · 03-01-2008

I tried the Amsoil tranny fluid in my DSM and it is pure shit. I actually changed it again 2 days later. I have run amsoil oil before and it seemed fine, but so does anything. I changed the t-case and rear end from amsoil to Redline and it was a little quieter.

**Kracka** · 03-01-2008

My tranny got some Redline fluid today; I've loved that stuff in all the cars I've owned.

**Kracka** · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

$.99 non-syn FTW!

Check out Chevron Supreme, you can generally get it for $.59/quart after mail-in-rebates and its the 3rd best conventional oil available. The only two ahead of it are Havoline and Motorcraft (made by Havoline).

jhaan_dude · 03-01-2008

hey jet was that the syncromesh amsoil that you used? and if so was it the 5w30 or the 70w90?

DSM_421 · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by blageo23

No way, Fram oil filter FTW

Have you ever cut a Fram and Napa oil filter apart and compaired them? We at Napa were not impressed at all with the guts of a Fram.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhaan_dude

has anybody tried the lucas oil turbo motor oil?!?!?

Lucas makes an oil substitute / stablizier / thickener. You can get it in synthetic and non synthetic. Synthetic won't void any warranty. Anyways the thickener works really well especially on imports.

I was running AMSoil 10w30 last summer and loved it, but this summer I'm gonna want to try running AMSoil 10w40 with Lucas synthetic oil stablizer.

DSM_421 · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon

I personally just run whatever synthetic is on sale the day I'm at the store. Except I never run Mobil 1.

Anyone else notice Walmart has a synthetic SuperTech now a days? I'm tempted to run it for a few thousand and send it in to be analyzed afterwards. Their conventional stuff isn't half bad.

If a good cheap reliable synthetic is what you are looking for, I'd recommend Napa Full Synthetic. Its made by the Ashland company (Same fools that make valvolean).

**JET** · 03-01-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhaan_dude

hey jet was that the syncromesh amsoil that you used? and if so was it the 5w30 or the 70w90?

Yes, but it is 75-90w. Gears were grinding like crazy.

jhaan_dude · 03-01-2008

sorry jet 75w90 is what i meant....i just got some in at the shop and was thinking about it, but thanks fo the heads up!!! i was gonna run that in my talon and but i will probably order some gm syncromesh instead!!! also lucas does make their own line of oil!!! you can buy it at pep boys off robert st. in st. paul by the saturn dealership. i was thinking about running it because on the back it said it was specially formulated for turbo, and super charged cars running high stress, and high horsepower engines...but yeah thanks for the heads up jet!!!

DSM_421 · 03-02-2008

Dude, Jhaan Dude, you need to learn how to make your post a little neater. Otherwise 99% of the people on these boards are just gonna blow right past your post.

95talonracer · 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlizzard

I switched over to Amsoil; I use it for my cars, snowmobiles, 4 wheeler, snowblower, ect. Their 2 cycle injector oil is some good shit; it never fouls a plug or even blows smoke for that matter. Using they synthetic in my car I could definetly tell the difference on longevity and gas mileage. Hughes you have probably heard of this stuff, since the company is located in Superior Wisconsin. Its not cheap but who cares.

I am a dealer of amsoil and too use it in everything I own and have had nothing but great performance and nice gas mileage as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSM_420

Have you ever cut a Fram and Napa oil filter apart and compaired them? We at Napa were not impressed at all with the guts of a Fram.

Lucas makes an oil substitute / stablizier / thickener. You can get it in synthetic and non synthetic. Synthetic won't void any warranty. Anyways the thickener works really well especially on imports.

I was running AMSoil 10w30 last summer and loved it, but this summer I'm gonna want to try running AMSoil 10w40 with Lucas synthetic oil stablizer.

You do realize that adding lucas so called "stablizer" actually makes the oil worse then what you had right out of the bottle proven right? There are such things as too many additives and that is what you are doing is messing up the balance in the amsoil synthetic formula. Thick does not mean better infact the thicker the more resistance and the worse gas mileage. The synthetics make it what it is not the thickness.

DSM_421 · 03-02-2008

I 100% understand what your saying. But I never even added that "stablizer". If I was gonna add it, It would be 4 quarts of amsoil and a half court of the "stablizer".

One quick question, what if you added just conventional lucas stablizer, would that still fuck up the synthetic formula?

Edit - I never go past 3.5k miles on an oil change, amsoil or not.

95talonracer · 03-02-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSM_420

I 100% understand what your saying. But I never even added that "stablizer". If I was gonna add it, It would be 4 quarts of amsoil and a half court of the "stablizer".

One quick question, what if you added just conventional lucas stablizer, would that still fuck up the synthetic formula?

Edit - I never go past 3.5k miles on an oil change, amsoil or not.

Well for one, yes it will mess it up. For amsoil you DONT add anything to their oils. They spend alot of money and time researching their formulas to be exactly what they are. You are still messing up the synthetic balance. Do you know the reason you are adding the "lucas" to the amsoil? It is like taking the premix coolaid that you just add to water and adding more sugar to it. They already have the amount in there that it needs and you just added more.

And for changing all oils after 3500 miles, you can beleive what you want but all you are doing is wasting money with changing the amsoil out that soon. You should be getting at least 7500 out of any amsoil if not more. Take advantage of their amsoil analysis testing kit. It tests your motor oil in comparison to a human blood test. REmember you might as well use the amsoil up to at least the minimum lifetime and get your use out of it because amsoil warrantys anything that may go wrong that is directly related to the oil itself.

If you need any more info or products you can pm me I am a dealer of the stuff and can help you out.