Short ram vs. CAI

X Factor · 10-15-2007

Hey guys,

Wasn't sure where to put this so I put it in general.

After doing my Intake this weekend and posting about it on the 4G forums, here is some of the feedback I got from them regarding CAI vs. Short ram.

After talking about it in person with Scheides, Kevin, Chris, Matt D etc they all agreed i'd be best with short ram, but these guys seem to disagree.

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"cool glad you love it now, but as far as the cai goes your friends are dumb. Sorry to say but you would need to hit way more then just a decent sized puddle to cause any problem. More like submerge the filter like a submarine and rev the piss out of the car. Eh to each their own though, all I know is I like the air coming off the raod a lot better then I would my hot engine, but what do I know

peace"

"dry isnt the problem. My point was you actually really need a lot of water sucked into the cai to cause a problem. if the filter gets a little wet or heaven forbib to run through a puddle that gets it all wet, you should be fine.

the problem really comes in if you are driving through a ton of water and have the filter submerged. if it is submerged in water and you are driving, you a sucking water right ip into the engine. this will of course cause an issue. puddles heavy rain etc should not"

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Biggest reason i'm asking is it's going to be raining pretty much all week, so would it maybe be a smart idea to convert it to CAI for the week and see how wet the filter gets after driving to work and then back home all week?

Seems to me like with the CAI your only protection vs water is the filter opposed to having quite a bit more distance from the ground with short ram, if it gets wet enough the engine is going to pull water right off it and straight into the engine... does it take a good amount to do damage, or is just a little going to cause damage?

I do want to be careful because the car is new (to me at least, it's like 2+ years old) so I don't want to get fucked by something like a hydrolock. But at the same time these guys are claiming even puddle splashes on it wouldn't effect it.

And then of course i've seen at LEAST 2 people come onto the forums going "HOLY SHIT WTF HAPPEN TO MY ENGINE!?!!? IT RAINED AND NOW IT WONT START????" ... and shit like that makes me very uneasy.

**Kracka** · 10-15-2007

Simple rain and a wet filter won't harm your engine, but if the filter gets fully submerged it will suck water in and hydrolock aka destroy your engine. If you're careful about it, do it. I had my air filter in the stock sidemount intercooler location (down low in the bumper off to the side) on my '94 Talon and it was fine in heavy rain, but if I saw a puddle in the road I found another way home. If you do it be very careful of standing water and make sure no water from above can drain in the filter. The S2k's have a hood water drain that drips directly onto the AEM CAI filter and a few people have hydrolocked that way, but now AEM designed some sort of umbrella to protect the filter from above.

**Kracka** · 10-15-2007

Oh, just to add one more thing, it wouldn't surprise me if you're actually losing power on the road with a short-ram b/c you're sucking in hot engine bay air (the filter sits directly behind the radiator). The dyno won't show this loss since all dyno testing is done with the hood open. Your stock intake has some ram-air snorkels to supply the engine with cooler ambient temp air.

Matt D. · 10-15-2007

Keep in mind that water doesn't compress like air. When the piston is at the very top of the compression stroke there is an unbelievably small amount of space left and it would take very little water to get in there to cause bad things to happen.

**scheides** · 10-15-2007

Yup, like mattD said, its not like it will suck in a gallon of water all of a sudden and hydrolock it. It only takes a small amount of water to get all the way up in there for that to happen.

And no we're not dumb, we're just advising what we would or wouldn't do and being conservative about it.....the guy that posted that, where does he live? If he lives somewhere in the south, specifically California, well the weather is a lot nicer there, that's all

Put it on if you want to, I'm not gonna stop ya!

HiImBrian · 10-15-2007

I had a cai on my last mazda mx6 and it stuck out a little bit under the car. So I was gettin really good cold airflow if you ask me. I drove it in a storm once and hit a puddle...There was no more driving for me that night. I took the cai off and looked to see how much water might have gone up it, and it was barley damp in some places. thankfuly my motor survived and we were able to pump the little bit of water out. But I've learned my lesson about low filters and I would advise you, by my own experience, not to do it unless you plan on not driving in the rain.

TkrPerformance · 10-15-2007

the evo sucks in the rain also and it just has the filter in the stock spot were the opening is on the hood and it takes in water like there is no tomorrow

**JET** · 10-15-2007

You can use one of the AEM bypass valves if you are worried about water. If there gets to be too much vacuum they suck in through that instead of the filter. Seems like a good concept and it should work.

**Kracka** · 10-15-2007

Those bypass valves generally cause a power loss on S2k's vs. stock intake, so research it a bit more before trying one.

TkrPerformance · 10-15-2007

it looked like it sat in the bumper above the plactic under tray so it might be ok the way it is.

Kevin 1G Drummer · 10-15-2007

If it were my car, I'd be hesitant to put it on if I drove the car every day. Like I told you, my friend hydrolocked his G35 cuz of a CAI. When the shop that rebuilt his engine tore it all apart, they found only a few tablespoons of water in the #3 cyllinder that caused the rod to bend, destroying the rod for the #4?(can't remembe exactly which cyllinder would be next to that rod on the crank) cyllinder along with it.

mdost03 · 10-16-2007

Gains aren't worth the chance of hydrolocking, maybe like 1-2 hp difference between the two. Just stick with the short-ram intake and don't worry when it gets cloudy out.

Gravy · 10-16-2007

When i had a CAI on the S-10 i had, the only time i ever had an issue, was when i drove through about 12 inches of water, at a good 35 mph. Was one hell of a splash, and got a little water on my MAF. After it dried, disconnected and re-connected the battery and problem solved.

X Factor · 10-16-2007

Yeah I'm just gonna leave it short ram. It'll sit in the back of my head every time it rains and it'll be too much worry for what it's worth.

Thanks again for the opinions guys!

And yeah as far as that guy calling you guys dumb or whatever, I think your right, Scheides. Like 95% of the people on the 4G forums live in California and Florida, so I don't think they take into account that I live in MN. I know you guys wouldn't BS me about the risks, I guess I just like to hear everyones opinions on the topic.