What to go with over 600hp?

santa · 12-05-2004

I'm planning on going big this year ?(summer 05) when I get back from school. I'm thinking about going with the eagle rods and wisco piston's? but I was wondering if i should go better than that set up? I am also looking into going with the 2.4 de-stroked to the 2.14 and reving to about 10,000 rpm. I hear that qpr is currently building a motor for someone. I was planning on waiting to make my decision based on the out come of that motor. I will also be building this motor myself. I'm just wondering what people have run, and also what people's opinion's are on a built motor. I will also be running a built tranny of course and also a twin disk clutch of some sore along with slicks a cage and possibly a wheelie bar... well have to see.

Kevin

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-05-2004

You can't make 600hp on a 4 cylinder, are you crazy?

At-Least-It's-An-Evo · 12-05-2004

Honest opinion: Save your money. 600 whp dsms are overrated money pits unless you are going to have alot of funding from an alternate source such as drugs or whoring yourself.

Super Bleeder!! · 12-05-2004

do it kev, i have yet to see a single running 2.17L yet. i'd be they make more power than the 2.0s and 2.4s with a proper setup

santa · 12-06-2004

Sorry if I'm sounding like a jackass but I'm just looking for internal opinion's... I will be doing it becasue I love to drag my car... go big or go home man. Thanks Gixxer for the prop's now whats all of your opinion's on internals?? and what motor to go with?

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-06-2004

I think Marco might be running a 2.14l. Eagles will hold 600whp. Will they hold 600whp at 10,000rpms? I don't know. You might want a dogbox tranny, if you plan on being able to shift at 10,000RPMs. You might want to use some Crower or Pauter rods. The cost of engine internals are going to be a small drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the parts need to get a DSM to make power at 10,000RPMS. DSMs are not VTEC Honda's, they don't keep making more and more power as you rev high and higher, they usually flatline not long at spooling up and eventually start falling. With the commonly used parts most 2.0ls start dropping power a little after 8000RPMs. With the 2.4ls it's more like 7000-7500. You should be able to make 600whp with even a 2.0l with a 75lb/min turbo and 35psi.

TheBlizzard · 12-06-2004

I think what Kevin is thinking is that with the 2.14 he is going to be able to stay in gears longer which will be more benificial with FWD. But Shanes right in the fact that you are going to spend a fortune getting the car to actually utilize its high reving capabilities. And the shifting is going to be a big issue unless you have an auto. If you are planning on driving it on the street your not going to want to spend the money for a dogbox either just to kill it in a year driving around town.

CRAIG

**JET** · 12-06-2004

I would go with Crower rods. I am not positive if Crower makes the longer rods that you need though (156mm). I know there are at least 2 companies that make the long rods though. Pauters are awesome, but they are wider than Crowers so you run into more clearance issues with them.

One nice thing about the Eagles, they are the lightest rods I have seen. Less weight is a good thing, especially when spinning that high.

santa · 12-06-2004

Thanks for the information. If theres more to add that would be awsome. I do know that reving higher doesnt mean im going to make more power like honda's, Craig did make the valid piont that I do want to rev that high because of FWD, and the traction issues. But like I said I want to see one in action and well see what I decide I may just got with the 2.0 for all I know or possibly the 2.3 stroker. Basically my decision rests on some good hard research. Thanks a lot!!

Kevin

**Goat Blower** · 12-06-2004

I'm sure there's a few running around out there somewhere besides Marco. They look good on paper, more displacement and a rod ratio an Indy car would love. Build it up.

I mentioned building one up to Brent since he's actually got a tranny that could handle the rpms. He didn't seem interested in changing from the 2.0.

Super Bleeder!! · 12-06-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecoli

DSMs are not VTEC Honda's, they don't keep making more and more power as you rev high and higher, they usually flatline not long at spooling up and eventually start falling.

why is that? is the vtec lobe have some GIGANTIC life/duration or what??

**JET** · 12-06-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Blower

I mentioned building one up to Brent since he's actually got a tranny that could handle the rpms. He didn't seem interested in changing from the 2.0.

Brent actually hasn't really done any research on the newer configurations. He is having good luck with the 2.0 and wants to stick with it. I told him about the 2.14 and 2.4 stuff last year, but he wasn't too interested. He said he talked to Marco some and Marco sent him a few parts, but he didn't like them too much.

Speedfreak · 12-06-2004

Please do this in a AWD... Mostly worthless in a FWD. Just buy Shane's car for 25g so he can get a 1/4 of his $ out

Raptor · 12-06-2004

2.14 is a great design, rod clearance should be less of an issue since the crank used is shorter throw than the one the block is designed for. So Pauters should be no trouble to run. Also, Crower has no issue with selling longer rods and I personally would go that route. As far as Pistons, I am to the point where Wiseco has me a bit pissed off so I have been scouting other sources and have some pretty cool info that I will post after I can prove it. The current 2.14 that we are building is using a knife edged crank, a scraper, windage tray and the pistons that we have been looking at. Looks like a promising setup when done. The tranny and other parts are being built to handle it as well. The head is getting a lot of port work and larger valves, cams matched to the expected powerband and an upgraded ignition and intake as well as exhaust and the perfect turbo. Cam and valve spring selection is a pretty big deal with the RPM range intended. And since you asked about dry sump before, this would be the right app for it. Kevin, if you want more info on the pistons we are looking into, PM me or shoot a call and I will fill you in.

1QUICK4 · 12-06-2004

Sound like somebody else is building a powerhouse FWD eh Kevin?

We'll have to get together and brainstorm as your shooting for around the same power level as I am. Maybe we can get a multiple purchase discount on some FWD go-fast parts (twin-plate clutch, wheelie bars, etc.)

We're deffinatly gonna run 'em when they're done

AJ · 12-06-2004

I won't say who it's for but that monster Mike is talking about building is also a FWD deal.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-06-2004

Curtis?

I will wave to all you FWD guys as I pass you in my low reving 2.4l street tired AWD in the next lane.

carltalon · 12-06-2004

I know of a FEW fwd that are going to be putting down some crazy power next year.

At-Least-It's-An-Evo · 12-06-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by carltalon

I know of a FEW fwd that are going to be putting down some crazy power next year.

So they're going to put down over 750+ whp becuase 6-700 whp is everyone and their mom these days.

**Shane@DBPerformance** · 12-06-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by gixxer

why is that? is the vtec lobe have some GIGANTIC life/duration or what??

Yep. The lift and duration on a stock GSR cam make an HKS 272 seem tiny. The stock Integra Type-R cams make Crower "Race Only" cams for DSMs look wimpy. They also have great cylinder heads with small hi velocity ports.